TWCL

bodhisam · Joined: 13 Nov 2009 Posts: 3

Has anyone had any experience with the Webcomic Planet Reader's Choice Awards? My favorite web comic Tara Normal was recently accused of hurting the competition after having taken the lead in the popular voting because the author was asking us fans to vote for him! This seems so wrong. Isn't that what you're supposed to do? I mean, if the readers of the comic love it and want to vote, isn't that the right thing to do in a voting competition?

wendyw · Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:28 am Post subject:

I would pretty much expect anyone who was in with a chance of winning one to try and drum up some votes. On the plus side it's bringing in more people to vote and unless that comic is up for every award then hopefully those people will also vote for some others.

I just think you should expect these things when doing an open public vote.
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jaygee · Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:43 am Post subject:

I wouldn't be too worried about this. Asking your fans to support your comic when you are standing the chance of doing well in a comp is neither uncommon nor in any way unethical.
I agree with Wendy - as there's frequently a rivalry between comics it isn't entirely unsurprising that somebody cries "foul". I'm sure Phil of the WCP is gonna handle this appropriately.
Besides, I voted for Tara Normal too...
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guyincognito · Joined: 10 Sep 2009 Posts: 110

bodhisam wrote:

My favorite web comic Tara Normal was recently accused of hurting the competition after having taken the lead in the popular voting because the author was asking us fans to vote for him!

Sounds like sour grapes, unless there is a specific rule against creators campaigning. I'm going to echo what's already by Wendy and Jaygee, there is nothing wrong with this in the slightest.
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Miluette · Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Posts: 679 Location: TN, USA

I think authors were urged to promote others as well, in the spirit of some semblance of fairness. Say things like "I encourage looking over the other comics and voting for your true favorite!" or something. Of course it's natural to nudge your fans in your direction...as they're already your fans, hehe.
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Novil · Joined: 01 Sep 2008 Posts: 384

Tara Normal is the subject of criticism not because its creator asked his readers to vote for it (many other comics did that, too), but because its message was particularly insistent (the news entries of other comics often included something like: “... , but there are other great comics as well so just vote for your favorite.”) and because several people (including WP’s webmaster Philip) think that it does not deserve to be in the top 5, at least not in the category “Best Art”.

EDIT: According to a comment by Philip the top 5 won’t be considered by judges at all (I don’t know why.). This means that Tara Normal would win “Best new comic”. And sorry, I really don’t think that it deserves this award. It’s an okay comic, but not particularly good. The story is very confusing. I got the impression that there are pages missing when reading it.
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mil · Joined: 19 Sep 2009 Posts: 99

Novil wrote:

Tara Normal but because its message was particularly insistent (the news entries of other comics often included something like: “... , but there are other great comics as well so just vote for your favorite.”)

So the Tara Normal creator was being honest while all others are politically correct hypocrites... and therefore he should be punished? Sorry, but come on, 99,999% of the people who write something on their website like "Hey, I´m in the voting but you should vote for your favorite." aren´t telling the truth otherwise they would write "Hey, please vote for me, please, please, please, I want to win."
Didn´t you write something like that you like to win awards and asked your readers to nominate you in every possible category? How is that better?

Quote:

and because several people (including WP’s webmaster Philip) think that it does not deserve to be in the top 5, at least not in the category “Best Art”.

Don´t forget that these are popularity contests. Not the best wins but the most popular. AND on top of that art is a very subjective matter, especially if you try to define it`s quality. It comes always down to personal taste.

I didn`t even bother to nominate my comic for best art because it would`ve been an insult to comics like Kukuburi and Charles Christopher to do that and set myself besides them. These two comics have great art, really well drawn. But I took a look at that webcomicplanet award and both of them are not in the top5. And Lackadaisy should be on top of that list too - at least it made it almost to the top5...

Phoenix Requiem which is currently number 1, is ok drawn (a bit too stiff, some errors in anatomy and very boring pictures that consist most of the time of faces and people talking, shown above the waist). It has very good and nice coloring though.
The Dreamer which is currently on 2 is technically better drawn with more interesting and varied images. The coloring isn´t as nice as that of Phoenix Requiem or Lackadaisy though.

But in overall it doesn´t matter because people don´t base their votes on the craftsmanship but on what they like and what matches most their personal taste.

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“Best new comic”. And sorry, I really don’t think that it deserves this award. It’s an okay comic, but not particularly good. The story is very confusing. I got the impression that there are pages missing when reading it.

Sorry and who deserves it then? The title best new comic will go to that what people like most and vote for. Per definition, that´s the best new comic because it touched people enough and motivated them to vote for it (in a popularity contest).
If you want a contest to be more about technical quality and craftsmanship (and perhaps be rated more objective) you need a jury of experts to rate and vote. For best new comic it should be a jury of experienced (and professional) screenwriters, comic authors, dramaturgists and webcomic creators. And no public voting.
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wendyw · Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject:

mil wrote:

If you want a contest to be more about technical quality and craftsmanship (and perhaps be rated more objective) you need a jury of experts to rate and vote. For best new comic it should be a jury of experienced (and professional) screenwriters, comic authors, dramaturgists and webcomic creators. And no public voting.

Or you could leave it open to only webcomic folk to nominate an then have judges decide the winners based on that. Very Happy

What? I'm not allowed to promote our awards in the middle of a discussion on someone else's?

Well fine then. I'll be over here having lunch then.
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jaygee · Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject:

Well, not sure but looks like this year's WCPRCAs have just been cancelled...
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johlin · Joined: 22 Jan 2009 Posts: 141

Yeah, he's just gonna cut it short and put up the top winners now.

TWCL awards did get a mention though, that's pretty cool.
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Novil · Joined: 01 Sep 2008 Posts: 384

mil wrote:

So the Tara Normal creator was being honest while all others are politically correct hypocrites... and therefore he should be punished?

I have never written that it should be punished. I have just mentioned the reasons why it received some criticism.

mil wrote:

Didn´t you write something like that you like to win awards

I love to win awards. There’s nothing wrong about that.

mil wrote:

and asked your readers to nominate you in every possible category? How is that better?

Funny. If you ask Philip he can confirm that I asked for the EXCLUSION of Sandra and Woo out of the “Best Design” category because I felt that it really didn’t deserve an award for that.

mil wrote:

And Lackadaisy should be on top of that list too - at least it made it almost to the top5...

I voted for Lackadaisy as “Best Art” as well.

mil wrote:

Sorry and who deserves it then?

There are several other good comics that would have deserved the most votes. It’s not my task to say which one of them should have won.

mil wrote:

If you want a contest to be more about technical quality and craftsmanship (and perhaps be rated more objective) you need a jury of experts to rate and vote. For best new comic it should be a jury of experienced (and professional) screenwriters, comic authors, dramaturgists and webcomic creators. And no public voting.

That’s what we’re trying to do with the TWCL awards. If the awards are a success this year, we might get some more famous judges next year.
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Chilari · Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject:

Novil wrote:

That’s what we’re trying to do with the TWCL awards. If the awards are a success this year, we might get some more famous judges next year.

Not that we don't have famous judges this year - Brad Guigar is judging one, he's probably the most famous name we've got. Then of course Oppy is judging one, and what is the webcomic world without everyone's favourite crazy Dutch weirdo? (That's meant to be in an affectionate way, oppy, don't ban me*). Plus, of course, who can forget the incredibly wonderful Wendy, and last but my no means least, me, widely known for things such as that picture I put up on DeviantArt and, um, reading a few good webcomics. Yeah. We're famous!

*Please.
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mooncity · Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject:

Hey, 12 whole people voted grouchy Sherm Sherman as best antagonist. Not nearly enough to win or anything, but it's awesome my whole fanbase turned out and voted for Sherm!
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bodhisam · Joined: 13 Nov 2009 Posts: 3

Novil wrote:

Tara Normal is the subject of criticism not because its creator asked his readers to vote for it (many other comics did that, too), but because its message was particularly insistent (the news entries of other comics often included something like: “... , but there are other great comics as well so just vote for your favorite.”) and because several people (including WP’s webmaster Philip) think that it does not deserve to be in the top 5, at least not in the category “Best Art”.

EDIT: According to a comment by Philip the top 5 won’t be considered by judges at all (I don’t know why.). This means that Tara Normal would win “Best new comic”. And sorry, I really don’t think that it deserves this award. It’s an okay comic, but not particularly good. The story is very confusing. I got the impression that there are pages missing when reading it.

It sounds like you and Phil had an idea of what you wanted the contest to be (ie: Juried), but did not use the right method.

And once the contest is open, it's unethical to try and change the voting. If the popular vote method didn't fit the objectives of the awards, they should have never been begun that way in the first place.

How exactly does it matter what Phil thinks of any of the nominees? He's the moderator and is supposed to be unaffiliated. Your comment really makes it sound like the whole contest is a sham.

The voting process itself is the means to allow everyone a fair opinion. By casting my vote, as a fan & reader, I am freely expressing that opinion. After that, it's out of my hands. But I certainly feel happy and secure that I've gotten the chance to have my say. I'm not going to hate on other people or their work because I'm not getting my own way. That's just juvenile. And I'm certainly not going to publicly bash someone else's work.

Wasn't the spirit of the contest to open up the doors for new web comics and connecting viewers to them? You're negativity towards the others is truly hypocritical.

And you're whole argument is based on the idea that the contest is supposed to promote all the nominees. That's the CONTEST'S job, not the other creators. Anyone who is bringing more votes to the site, is thereby bringing more people and exposing them by proxy to the other comics.

Novil · Joined: 01 Sep 2008 Posts: 384

Chilari wrote:

Not that we don't have famous judges this year - Brad Guigar is judging one, he's probably the most famous name we've got. Then of course Oppy is judging one, and what is the webcomic world without everyone's favourite crazy Dutch weirdo? (That's meant to be in an affectionate way, oppy, don't ban me*). Plus, of course, who can forget the incredibly wonderful Wendy, and last but my no means least, me, widely known for things such as that picture I put up on DeviantArt and, um, reading a few good webcomics. Yeah. We're famous!

*Please.

It’s certainly a good thing that Brad Guigar is a jury member. The more well known the judges are the more recognition the award will get. But it also can’t be the solution to have all kinds of successful webcomic creators as judges, at least not if that means that their comics can’t be nominated. So mil got it right with “jury of experienced (and professional) screenwriters, comic authors, dramaturgists and webcomic creators.” I used the word “famous” a bit sloppy here. I’m sure we all want the same thing.

mooncity wrote:

Hey, 12 whole people voted grouchy Sherm Sherman as best antagonist. Not nearly enough to win or anything, but it's awesome my whole fanbase turned out and voted for Sherm!

I’d like to congratulate you, but then again, you’d maybe rather have 12 voters out of 2,000 than 12 voters out of 20.

bodhisam wrote:

It sounds like you and Phil had an idea of what you wanted the contest to be (ie: Juried), but did not use the right method.

I have nothing to do with the WCRC awards.

bodhisam wrote:

I'm not going to hate on other people or their work because I'm not getting my own way. That's just juvenile. And I'm certainly not going to publicly bash someone else's work.

This forum is not a hugbox. If someone thinks a comic is not as good as some other people say it is, he’s allowed to express his opinion.

bodhisam wrote:

Wasn't the spirit of the contest to open up the doors for new web comics and connecting viewers to them? You're negativity towards the others is truly hypocritical.

You’re obviously angry because I don’t like your favorite comic (I have not expressed a negative opinion on any other comic in the contest, so what’s up with that wording “the others”?). In the last year I have written several very positive reviews on our website about other new webcomics our readers should check out.
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