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wendyw · Last edited by wendyw on Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:07 am; edited 2 times in total

Edit: A poll has now been opened until the evening of Sunday the 9th.
Please read through this thread before voting and don't be too hasty with your vote. You only get one chance to decide.

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This thread is just for discussing whether or not the awards should have a Most Improved Comic category and if so what the criteria of the category will be.

I will open a poll based on the options suggested in this thread on Sunday 2nd August between 9 and 10pm GMT and close it around the same time on Sunday 9th August.
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Chilari · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject:

Since this was my idea, I reckon I'd better explain why I think it should be a category.

First, however, I would like the clarify that I think the award should be for the comic that has improved the most during 2009 - before that doesn't count, giving shorter comics a better chance, and reducing the workload of the judges.

My main reason in support of this award is that I believe improvement should be recognised. A lot of webcartoonists put a lot of effort into their comics, and many of them actively try to improve both their writing and their art in the course of creating a webcomic; some people create a webcomic for the purpose of improving. This kind of effort and hard work should be recognised.

This kind of award is also quite inclusive. It can include both relatively new comics and older comics. Generally, though, the big dogs won't fall under this category, so it gives lesser-known comics a better chance.

Some people have argued that this can be seen as a backhanded compliment - "yes, you're good now but you used to suck". I disagree. This isn't the "worst comic a year ago" award. While it's true that some of the nominated comics will have begun, shall we say, below average, that will not necessarily be the case. A comic that's been going for five years, and has always been average to good, may still improve - perhaps the artist went on a life drawing course, or the comicker decided to reduced the frequency of updates in order to spend more time on each page, or in some other way made their comic better than it had been for the last four years in a significant way. So while it might be that one nominee began pretty bad and became average to good, another might have began fairly good and became wonderful.

So in summary, the "most improved" award recognises hard work where it might otherwise be overlooked; it includes a wide variety of comics; and while it might be seen by some as a backhanded compliment, it is not intended to be.
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Midtoon · Joined: 20 Apr 2009 Posts: 188 Location: California, USA

I started out really bad and now I'm just bad, I hope.

It is funny to see the changes over the course of the year, though. When I am drawing, it seems I'm still doing it the same, but when I see the Jabuary and February strips side by side with the June and July ones, I'm truly amazed at the diference.

I can only wonder what I will think of these comics after a few years, if I keep making them, that is.

I like the awards thing, even though I know I won't measure up for it, but it is a good thing to see what you people think. I'm looking forward to see what comes out of it.
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Novil · Joined: 01 Sep 2008 Posts: 384

I’m strictly against this category. I’m quoting myself:

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The idea of “Most improved” is also not a good idea. It would be very surprising to find even one comic which sucked for five years before miraculously getting much, much better in the last year.

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I’m still strongly opposing “Most improved”. If a comic has improved that much that it’s really great now it should be able to get nominated for one of the other categories. If it has only improved much compared to its former suckiness you’re giving an award not based on absolute quality but on relative quality compared to its own low standard before.

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ttallan · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:08 pm Post subject:

I have to say I don't think this is a good category either. If a webcomic improves a lot but not enough within the judging year, then it can get nominated the following year when it is good all the way through.
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jpcline · Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 289

I actually think this is a good idea. Improvement doesnt just mean from bad to good. It can be from good to great. Maybe the writing really hit its stride, or the art could have been improved a lot. I think there is a lot to say about people who constantly strive to learn and improve, and they should be recognized for that.
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jynksie · Joined: 23 Apr 2008 Posts: 612 Location: New Hampshire USA

ttallan wrote:

I have to say I don't think this is a good category either. If a webcomic improves a lot but not enough within the judging year, then it can get nominated the following year when it is good all the way through.

Whats wrong with that? There may be many comics that get renominated from year to year for different catagories, or some of the same ones. If you do good on 09, but you rock 10, why not be in the running?

I like this category.
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wendyw · Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:49 pm Post subject:

Just going through and working out all the poll options.

As far as I can see the only options needed on Sunday for this category will simply be a yes or no.

Is everybody happy with that?
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mooncity · Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:51 pm Post subject:

Up or down (yes or no) vote works for me.
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wendyw · Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject:

...and the poll is now live.
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pacmansays · Joined: 24 Jul 2009 Posts: 104

I'm not a fan of this idea....

Kinda like saying 'you used to be rubbish but well done at not being rubbish anymore'
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wendyw · Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:59 pm Post subject:

As others have said you don't have to have been bad a year ago to warrant the award, just not as good as you are now. It would be more likely to go to a comic that used to be good but is now brilliant than a comic that was awful and is now good.

Either way, I haven't made a decision myself yet on how to vote with this one.
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Kallisti · Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 709 Location: Der Interwebs

I think this is an important category and has it's place in the awards. Then again, I'm a huge advocate of the rights/responsibilities of beginning webcomickers, so I may be slightly biased.

There's a lot of comickers out there who produce sheer crap, and are content to produce the same. I see them all the time while hanging out in the "Check out my comic" board. I recently ran across one where the art... the fonts... the story... the jokes... practically everything was not only bad, it was an affront to the senses. When I asked/challenged him on it, he said that it was "intentional" and "stylistic"... which is all well and good, if you want a comic with no readers except for the lucky few on 4chan who favorably compare you to Sonichu. He was not going to improve, for he had willed it to be so.

Compare that to, and I hope I don't offend him for using him as an example, the comic Ardra. Jason's writing was good, but his original self-done drawings were... simplistic, angular, and occasionally painful, his lettering was tightly packed and only barely readable, and his stories tried to get too much done too fast. But he knew all of that - and sought help. Towards the end of his run as artist, the art style, pacing, and lettering had all drasticly improved - enough that he was able to draw the attentions of Trevor (then Fes, now Trevor AND Fes). The three of them combined escalated the game to the point where it's one of my personal favorites.

This award should be for those comics that have something tarnishing their record... something that they've overcome. And it doesn't have to be artistic - it could be horrible writing, it could be a terrible update schedule, a poorly designed website, a bad choice in casting, a "put on the bus" moment, an "it was all a dream" sequence... Some black mark exists in this comic's history that they have made drastic and almost heroic efforts to overcome in the last year.
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bunnypandemic · Joined: 22 Jul 2009 Posts: 262

I agree. This section shows how much work the artist/writer has put into the comic since establishment.

Although, there are way too many awards...
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alsobagels · Joined: 21 Feb 2009 Posts: 197

Well said, Kallisti. I will forever be marred by my first few months of comics, and probably will never achieve what others have done with their first impressions. This category gives those people a chance.
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