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Chilari
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That list looks like a good one, covering pretty much everything without going overboard. We don't really want many more than that; being too ambitious could lead to our downfall. However, I would like to suggest "most improved comic" - judged either from the first posted pages to the most recent, or within a set time frame, such as one year.
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Chilari
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Novil wrote:
The idea of “Most improved” is also not a good idea. It would be very surprising to find even one comic which sucked for five years before miraculously getting much, much better in the last year.


Or perhaps a relatively new comic that started up a little over a year ago and during that time has undergone significant improvement? I agree that comics five years old are unlikely to improve significantly in a one-year period in their sixth year, but not all comics will be five year old comics.

Plus, it doesn't necessarily exclude comics which used to suck. It might be that a comic which was fairly average, or even pretty good, has suddenly improved dramatically and gone from good to incredible (perhaps as a result of the creator making it their full time job, taking a drawing or writing class, or being able to devote more time to each page). Improvement doesn't necessarily entail a shit comic becoming average or good; it could be a good comic becoming fantastic.
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latecustomer



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read up on as many of the posts as I could regarding the TWCL Awards idea so I could build on what's already there. If I may, I suggest keeping the categories simple and to a minimum. Also, I suggest that each category be as clearly defined as possible. With that said, here's what I suggest as a starting point. Feel free to modify, comment, or completely disregard as needed.

Best Art: Best overall visual style, composition, etc. This should not distinguish between color, black and white, single color, etc. A black and white comic can easily look better than a color comic if the artist knows his craft.

Best Writing: Best overall tempo, tension and release in writing. The tension and release is critical to any sort of writing, be it comedy or drama.

Best New Comic: A new comic (only X number of strips or less) that has solid art and writing from the word go.

Most Improved Comic: As suggested before, any comic that has shown considerable improvement in art and/or style within X number of strips.

Categories I'm not sure of, but like:

Best Overall Comic: Comic that has strong visuals and writing. Only reason I'm unsure of this is because, as someone else said, it may be the most sought after category, and it may disqualify comics which, while awesome for their writing (or art), the person just isn't an artist (or writer).

Favorite Character: This is more of a nod to any one favorite character that people may really like. For example, regardless of the rest of the comic, I just really like Hanners from QC. Obviously, I'm not sure about it because it's category is obviously nothing more than a popularity contest than anything else.

Those are my two cents.
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Chilari
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think having so many categories is too ambitious for the first year we're doing this. We need to limit it to reduce workload; next year, we can add genre categories if we feel we can handle it. Too ambitious, and the whole thing will collapse under its own weight.

Also,
LukeSurl wrote:
How about "Funniest" and "Best Storytelling". Both reward the primary virtues of these two broad genres without explicitly declaring the winner to overall be the best humour/story comic (i.e. art is not considered)

Some comics, such as Order of the Stick, could be candidates for both, but that wouldn't be too much of a problem. There'd be a few comic which tell neither stories nor jokes, but we can't cover everything.

Awards based on page format doesn't seem to be that workable as on the web these things are pretty fluid.

As far as languages go, I really can't see it working. We may have to tacitly accept these are English language (and translations to english) awards.

I agree with the entirity of this post.

I propose the following categories:

Best comic
Best newcomer / Horizon award (I like that name)
Best writing
Best colour art
Best black and white art
Best story/longform
Best humourous/shortform/non-continuity (as CN put it - that is what you meant, right?)
Most improved

That's 8.

I still support splitting art into colour and black and white, for a number of reasons. Firstly, if you don't, the black and white comics will have less of a chance, even if the linework and drawing quality etc are better, because colour generally makes comics more attractive. Secondly, in many black and white comics, different techniques and skills are used to create shading and mood than in a colour comic, which often cannot be compared easily to mood and atmosphere in a colour comic. Finally, good colouring often adds a considerable amount of time to the production of a page, so on average, a page of a certain level of detail and intricacy will have taken longer to produce than the same page in black and white. They're on a different kind of scale.

I also still support the most improved award, even though I realise I have been arguing to keep category numbers down. I think significant improvement must be recognised, even if the comic does fall into another category as a direct result of the improvement. If measured over the course of 2009 (assuming the ceremony takes place in early 2010), then the comic as a whole during that time may not be considered by voters and judges to have been good enough on average to vote for, even if by the end of 2009 it's really great. Furthermore, nomination or shortlisting into this category will greatly encourage the creator and congratulate them on hard work, and show them and their potential readers that it's paid off, and may encourage readers who stopped reading said comic to go back and look. An award like this recognises the hard work creators have put into their comic to improve it and let's them know that their readers and fellow comickers have noticed.
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dpat57
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A "Most despised" category might not go amiss for the 3Ders.
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dpat57
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thread killer! Shocked
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dpat57
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gregori wrote:
Nah, I would have a "Squarest Dudes" award just for you Smile



They're not waving.

But point taken. Smile
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Chilari
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems the discussion is slowing a little, even though there are still categories to be decided upon. So here's what I suggest: for each category (or group of categories) we open a new thread with a title beginning with "Category:" followed by the category name. In those threads we discuss the individual categories, weigh up the arguments for and against, and then create a poll.

I get the impression that the main things that need deciding upon are:
    *Best art - one category or two, based on colour and black and white.
    *Genre categories - do we have them or not?
    *Most improved - do we include this category or not?
    *Non-English comics - do we have the resources to do this or not?
    *Most overlooked - do we include this category or not?

Are there any other categories people think should be included, or other suggested categories anyone thinks should not be?
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Chilari
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think someone suggested having a "best storytelling" and "most funny" awards, which covers most comics out there, a few twice, and recognises different aspects of the comic industry. Would that work instead of best humour comic vs best story comic?
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oppernaR
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been suggested to let the actual awards coincide with the Oscars.
Now... feel free to torch the idea or adjust where needed, but allow me to present: THE Online Self-published Comic-ARTS!

Categories including but not necessarily limited to:
Most interesting / likable main character (male)
Most interesting / likable secondary character (male)
Most interesting / likable main character (female)
Most interesting / likable secondary character (female)
Best Art Direction (mise en scene)
Best Costume design
Best Storytelling
Best Foreign Language Comic
Best Comic
Best Visual Effects / Editing
Best Writing (comedy)
Best Writing (story)

Rolling Eyes
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Chilari
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I like the idea of best costume design. A lot of comic artists put a lot of time into costume design, some of them even for one-off characters or multiple costume changes for characters. That kind of effort often goes underappreciated.

However, this does tend to cover long-form and story comics to a greater degree than short-form and humour comics (though not always).

I also like the name of the awards.

I'm not so sure about having "best character" categories. I assume you mean to have those as a parallel to the Oscar's Best actor/actress categories, but I don't think it's really the same, since there's a huge difference between creating a character and playing one. Plus, it adds four categories.
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oppernaR
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with best character, going for 4 was stretching it Razz
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oppernaR
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked the name Sad It took me a whole 5 seconds to come up with while at work!
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