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LukeSurl
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dutch wrote:
LukeSurl wrote:
"Most overlooked", by definition, would be tricky to do by public or peer voting. It could probably be covered by a special jury/committe-only prize designed for such a purpose.


Or, whatever number make the list, when it gets to voting, state that if you wish to vote, give each of the three (five? seven) nominees a read and choose which of those is best.


Yeah, the question is how to get it down to those seven for a category which is about the most overlooked comics. If the previous stage was some form of a popular voting/nominations to get from hundreds of eligable candidates to seven then there may be a problem. If Comic X gets 200 nominations, is it very overlooked or not?

Maybe this could be one where a jury writes the shortlist and then there's the vote.

EDIT: In retrospect, my idea of having "best short form" and "best long form" catagories in an earlier post doesn't really work with an unbroken "best comic" catagory (it looks silly if the winner/nominees of best comic don't also win/get nominated in their respective subcat.) I should probably go to sleep now.
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vulpeslibertas
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that we should have a "Most Overlooked"/"Best Hidden Gem" category. Make a limit of no more than X number of readers.

And, I also think we should consider a Most Improved. My comic, for example (Y'know, if I actually updated) has had bad art for the last 5 years and is much nicer now. A lot of webcomickers redo their comics trying to improve them.
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latecustomer



Joined: 26 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read up on as many of the posts as I could regarding the TWCL Awards idea so I could build on what's already there. If I may, I suggest keeping the categories simple and to a minimum. Also, I suggest that each category be as clearly defined as possible. With that said, here's what I suggest as a starting point. Feel free to modify, comment, or completely disregard as needed.

Best Art: Best overall visual style, composition, etc. This should not distinguish between color, black and white, single color, etc. A black and white comic can easily look better than a color comic if the artist knows his craft.

Best Writing: Best overall tempo, tension and release in writing. The tension and release is critical to any sort of writing, be it comedy or drama.

Best New Comic: A new comic (only X number of strips or less) that has solid art and writing from the word go.

Most Improved Comic: As suggested before, any comic that has shown considerable improvement in art and/or style within X number of strips.

Categories I'm not sure of, but like:

Best Overall Comic: Comic that has strong visuals and writing. Only reason I'm unsure of this is because, as someone else said, it may be the most sought after category, and it may disqualify comics which, while awesome for their writing (or art), the person just isn't an artist (or writer).

Favorite Character: This is more of a nod to any one favorite character that people may really like. For example, regardless of the rest of the comic, I just really like Hanners from QC. Obviously, I'm not sure about it because it's category is obviously nothing more than a popularity contest than anything else.

Those are my two cents.
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wendyw
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LukeSurl wrote:

EDIT: In retrospect, my idea of having "best short form" and "best long form" catagories in an earlier post doesn't really work with an unbroken "best comic" catagory (it looks silly if the winner/nominees of best comic don't also win/get nominated in their respective subcat.) I should probably go to sleep now.


You have a point.
What do you think would be better to keep, the all in one best comic, or the two separate ones?
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LukeSurl
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wendyw wrote:
What do you think would be better to keep, the all in one best comic, or the two separate ones?


Personally I think you have to have "Best Comic" as the centerpiece of the awards. However if the nominations list for this were fairly wide-ranging select runners-up could be awarded "Best comic (in a particular subcategory)" awards.
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wendyw
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, a quick revision of what we have so far.

First up the categories that are more than likely in at this point:


Best Overall Comic
Best New Comic (Must have started during 2009)
Best Colour Art
Best Black and White Art
Best Writing
Most Improved Comic

Potential Categories:

Best Original / Innovative Comic
Best Story comic / Comedy comic + Best Strip Comic / Full Page Comic
(The potential problem with these four is, as Luke pointed out these might not work that well with the overall Best Comic award. I personally do like the Best Story and Best Comedy awards, but I do see his point.)
Best World Building
Favourite Character
Best Supporting Character
Best Protagonist Development
Best Overlooked Comic / Hidden Gem Award
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KEZ



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's semantics, but what about "best comic scripting" as opposed to "best writing?" That takes into account story pace in a comic setting, as opposed to just the words. It also makes it seem like it belongs to a comic award rather than a...novel/book award.

I also support a most-improved category. Comics that ARE years old DO suddenly improve. Along with vulpeslibertas, my own comic is a good example. Five years online, as of April 2009.

Some other things to consider: Best Paneling. This is different than both art or writing. Paneling is a comic art, and there some people who really excel at it, or break the rules, or make up their own rules.

Also, what about Best Use of the Medium? I mean, c'mon, what about comics with some interspersed animation or audio? It's a WEBcomic awards, right? Get that web/internet part in there! Very Happy
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Siabur



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best Photo comic.
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Zoe Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should also consider a "Best comic in a non-English language" category as well, since the English-language comics always dominate awards.
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Zoe Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KEZ wrote:
Some other things to consider: Best Paneling. This is different than both art or writing. Paneling is a comic art, and there some people who really excel at it, or break the rules, or make up their own rules.


There are rules? I can't just draw a box where I want? This is a serious point, although I was trying to make it in a humorous fashion. I've never heard of 'the rules of paneling' before.
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mooncity
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoe Robinson wrote:
We should also consider a "Best comic in a non-English language" category as well, since the English-language comics always dominate awards.


How could we read them?
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Mooncity
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KEZ



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoe Robinson wrote:
KEZ wrote:
Some other things to consider: Best Paneling. This is different than both art or writing. Paneling is a comic art, and there some people who really excel at it, or break the rules, or make up their own rules.


There are rules? I can't just draw a box where I want? This is a serious point, although I was trying to make it in a humorous fashion. I've never heard of 'the rules of paneling' before.


ehehehehe Razz

To back up Best Use of the Medium, here's what I'm talking about:

HERO

and

NAWLZ

There are of course, others. But these kinds of things are what really help make webcomics/digital comics DIFFERENT. I think there should be focus on the experimental side as well as the traditional aspects that are simply mirrored online.
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Novil



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m still strongly opposing “Most improved”. If a comic has improved that much that it’s really great now it should be able to get nominated for one of the other categories. If it has only improved much compared to its former suckiness you’re giving an award not based on absolute quality but on relative quality compared to its own low standard before.

“Most overlooked comic” is a nice idea. But how would you measure that? It’s not like every comic has its Project Wonderful stats on its site. And if one comic gets 100 nominations is it really overlooked? And if it’s a jury award how would they know of “overlooked” comics?

I like the idea of dividing art into color and black and white because otherwise no black and white strip would ever have the chance of winning an art related category.

I also like “Most innovative comic”. This category could also include comics using non-traditional media, i. e. photocomics and 3D comics.

Although it’s a bit redundant to “Best comic” I strongly support to keep “Best story comic” and “Best comedy comic”. This is basically the most important distinction regarding comic genres. Comedy comics often rely on less sophisticated art styles so most would not have a chance of winning an art related category either. So an own category is also a compensation for that.

But “Best comic” should not be dropped either because it’s the most ambitious category. Like “Best film” at the Oscars.

There’s a certain charme regarding “Best character”, but I’m not convinced that not at least three big breasted chicks would get the most nominations. It would be also bad for comics which do not have only one but two or three great characters so that votes would get split between them and none would get enough nominations for the final round.

I also feel that there should be 10 categories at most. The more categories the less each category is worth and the more work for the organisers and the jury.

My current list consisting of 8 categories:

Best comic
Best new comic [number of minimal strips has to be determined]
Best writing
Best color art
Best black and white art
Best story comic
Best comedy comic
Most innovative comic / Best non-traditional comic
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ttallan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wendyw wrote:
Best Story comic / Comedy comic + Best Strip Comic / Full Page Comic
(The potential problem with these four is, as Luke pointed out these might not work that well with the overall Best Comic award. I personally do like the Best Story and Best Comedy awards, but I do see his point.)
Best World Building

One possibility would be to have these four winners, and then do a final Big Extravaganza round where one of these gets picked for Best Comic of the Year. With only four to choose from you could throw the vote open to the public, or the TWCL membership, or whatever you like.
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Zoe Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mooncity wrote:
Zoe Robinson wrote:
We should also consider a "Best comic in a non-English language" category as well, since the English-language comics always dominate awards.


How could we read them?


Umm... some of us can?
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