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Annoying things in Webcomics
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iaviv



Joined: 03 Sep 2011
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casual Notice wrote:

As for advertising, there's advertising and then there's misleading. I odn't really concern myself with color/BW, but there are a few ads out there that stretch the leeway one should give to advertising (one comic in particular consistently shows full-color "examples" but the link leads to a simplified line-art comic that would be at home in a small-town paper in the 70's with none of the characters or hilarity of the ads).


Or ads with close up on boobs. That's also pretty annoying.
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Marscaleb



Joined: 28 Aug 2012
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iaviv wrote:

"90% of webcomic ads use artwork straight from the comic itself?" Not even 15%. Count again.


I'm willing to call you on this.
Though it should go without saying that I'm not talking about those little button ads that don't give you enough room to show any artwork, so they just a title or something. Reasonably this argument excludes ads which cannot showcase artwork.
Or perhaps you are counting "word of mouth advertising" or signatures that say "read my comic" or the like?
Counting those are the only way I can even imagine that you could get that low of a figure, but even then I'd have a hard time conceding so much as 50%.
So yeah, I'll call you on this one. Let's take a look at ads people use for webcomics and see how many use artwork straight from the actual comic and how many create new art for their ads.

iaviv wrote:


Or ads with close up on boobs. That's also pretty annoying.


Agreed.
(But to be fair, they usually are not misleading as toward the actual contents of the comic, so I don't hold *that* fault against them.)
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iaviv



Joined: 03 Sep 2011
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Marscaleb"]
iaviv wrote:

"90% of webcomic ads use artwork straight from the comic itself?" Not even 15%. Count again.


I'm willing to call you on this.
Though it should go without saying that I'm not talking about those little button ads that don't give you enough room to show any artwork, so they just a title or something. Reasonably this argument excludes ads which cannot showcase artwork.
Or perhaps you are counting "word of mouth advertising" or signatures that say "read my comic" or the like?
Counting those are the only way I can even imagine that you could get that low of a figure, but even then I'd have a hard time conceding so much as 50%.
So yeah, I'll call you on this one. Let's take a look at ads people use for webcomics and see how many use artwork straight from the actual comic and how many create new art for their ads.

I go through every site I advertise or don't advertise on and I see their ads (those that have ads, some don't advertise on but only offer ad space) and their comics. This is not made up. Look it up. It's not hard. And I don't see why buttons are excluded - they too have art from the comic sometimes, not just titles. You can choose to either put your title or a drawing and it seems that it's about 50-50 of what people choose to do. I do both. I use whichever one whenever I feel like. Also, when I say "art from the comic" I mean the actual comic. Not a pin-up or a cover. An actual drawing from a panel from the actual comic. You hardly ever see those, and in some cases you see a revised drawing from a comic (for instance, colored, drawn all over again, etc.) A lot of people also use animation, which, in most cases, don't exist in their comics.
There's a whole lot of misleading going on, but you're still somehow missing the point. Ads supposed to grab your attention to check the comic out. It doesn't matter what the ad was! I don't even remember any ad I ever clicked on (that's right, not even one), I only remember the comics I liked enough to come back to.
Give it a rest, seriously. I'm not going to comment on this any further. It's pointless, obviously.
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sadbacon



Joined: 12 Feb 2013
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been drawing my whole life but I've only really put together 3 comics. I've read a ton though. I just want to say this thread has provided me with some interesting insight into what annoys people and I'm taking notes. I'm curious though, are most people in this thread (or forum in general) comic creators themselves? If so, I wonder what the annoys the casual consumer of comics and if it aligns. I mean, one who is passionate and creates tends to be more critical in analyzing works similar to their own. I'm reminded of this every time I watch Top Chef and they're trying food. The critics taste the food and say something like "it would have been better if she had made the matzoh ball out of the rye bread" and then the camera switches to a casual foodie diner eating the same thing and they say "I ate the hell out of it cuz it's the best matzoh ball I've ever had!"
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wendyw
The Bomb-diggity


Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 4138
Location: North-East England

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sadbacon wrote:
I'm curious though, are most people in this thread (or forum in general) comic creators themselves?


Most of the people around here are creators or lapsed creators. The forum's open to anyone, but we don't get many non-creator types stick around. : /
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Eve Z.



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Or ads with close up on boobs. That's also pretty annoying.


What about an add with a stinky fat guy sitting in a dirty armchair eating snax and drinking soda, with a word bubble that says 'BOOBS HERE.'... would you check that out? Wink
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iaviv



Joined: 03 Sep 2011
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about an add with a stinky fat guy sitting in a dirty armchair eating snax and drinking soda, with a word bubble that says 'BOOBS HERE.'... would you check that out? Wink[/quote]

Maaaayyyybbbeeeeeeee...
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Casual Notice
Spambot Extraordinaire


Joined: 18 Mar 2005
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Location: Oh my God, It's full of stars!

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eve Z. wrote:
Quote:
Or ads with close up on boobs. That's also pretty annoying.

What about an add with a stinky fat guy sitting in a dirty armchair eating snax and drinking soda, with a word bubble that says 'BOOBS HERE.'... would you check that out? Wink

Why would that be advertising a comic and not a Seth Rogan movie?
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Marscaleb



Joined: 28 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iaviv wrote:

There's a whole lot of misleading going on, but you're still somehow missing the point. Ads supposed to grab your attention to check the comic out. It doesn't matter what the ad was!

You're missing my point, and that is when an ad pulls in a reader and the reader fails to find what they saw enticing from the ad, they bail. What difference does it make if an ad grabbed your attention if the comic fails to do so?
Bait and switch doesn't work if you can't get anything from it.
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iaviv



Joined: 03 Sep 2011
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marscaleb wrote:

You're missing my point, and that is when an ad pulls in a reader and the reader fails to find what they saw enticing from the ad, they bail. What difference does it make if an ad grabbed your attention if the comic fails to do so?
Bait and switch doesn't work if you can't get anything from it.


In my experience most people who click my ads stick around. Most of my ads don't show exactly how my comic looks like. So there. If you have a different experience... I don't care. Your ads should work for you, not for anyone else. That's the point you're missing. You can still be "annoyed" by "misleading" ads - I couldn't care less.

End of discussion.
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OnlyTheGhosts



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the risk of necroing what might be an old thread, I found this a very useful thread, but ... by about page 7 or 8, it started to devolve into somebody always hates something that someone else likes. I'm tempted to summarise the first few pages, but no doubt, I'd be guilty of the same subjective bias. A poll could be useful, a survey of some sort. I'd love to see that.
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ewomack
Grand prize winner!


Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 469

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very true... we're delving deep into the world of subjectivity here... it would be nice to find things that 80% - 90% of all responders find annoying... we may reach consensus with music that plays automatically and can't be shut off on a webpage...
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Mbeast



Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is certainly an educational read. My comic has only been up since March of this year and with a month and a half unavoidable hiatus (I had to move unexpectedly and then it took too long to get internet back). Not sure if I've been guilty of any of these just yet, except badmouthing and making excuses for my work and, possibly, wordiness.

I've wanted to do a comic for years, but the few artists I've found to work with usually flaked out early on. Once I started developing ideas for Mark of the Beast, it just seemed easier to learn how to draw rather than go through dealing with another artist again. I know that if I waited until everything met my usual high standards, the comic would never get posted so some wonky art gets in there. However, I do balance it out with giving myself pats on the back when the art turns out better than I had hoped for.

Anyway, what people are saying about advertising is very helpful. I haven't put together a banner yet and probably won't for a while, but it's something I've definitely been thinking about. Since I'm only on my 30-odd update, I don't feel there's enough published content to accurately draw from.

And, to remain on topic, one of the things I find extremely annoying about some webcomics (which I did not see mentioned anywhere) is gratuitous swearing. Now, I'm not against swearing in any shape or form and use it plenty. I made the choice in Mark of the Beast not to use it and instead just random $#@&ing symbols. I just think that after a certain point it loses any impact, actually starts detracting from the humor, and becomes very, very annoying.
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Metruis
Postpostpostpostpost!


Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Posts: 1019
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mbeast wrote:
I just think that after a certain point it loses any impact, actually starts detracting from the humor, and becomes very, very annoying.

I personally don't like symbols as an option instead of swearing in a serious comic, I find it childish... there's non-offensive words that can be used. But I agree that it loses its impact. If someone says the f-word every other sentence, when they really, really need to say it... it'll have more impact coming from the character who's never sworn in the entire story than coming from the character who says it every page. Just my two cents.

Of course my interest is mostly in story-based comics so in something humorous I'd not be so distracted by the symbols, in fact, they can be funny when used as part of the joke. For example in a recent Sandra on the Rocks comic, the main character swears and then a French kid asks their mom a question and quotes back the same string of symbols. Assuming the average reader doesn't know French, they just can assume that the question is "what does (string of English cusses) mean, mom?" and it works really well as a punch line.

But for serious comics. Different ballpark. I tend to make my decisions based on what the character would do, some of them curse and some of them not so much.
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Mbeast



Joined: 14 May 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Metruis wrote:
[quote="Mbeast"I just think that after a certain point it loses any impact, actually starts detracting from the humor, and becomes very, very annoying.

I personally don't like symbols as an option instead of swearing in a serious comic, I find it childish... there's non-offensive words that can be used. But I agree that it loses its impact. If someone says the f-word every other sentence, when they really, really need to say it... it'll have more impact coming from the character who's never sworn in the entire story than coming from the character who says it every page. Just my two cents.

Of course my interest is mostly in story-based comics so in something humorous I'd not be so distracted by the symbols, in fact, they can be funny when used as part of the joke. For example in a recent Sandra on the Rocks comic, the main character swears and then a French kid asks their mom a question and quotes back the same string of symbols. Assuming the average reader doesn't know French, they just can assume that the question is "what does (string of English cusses) mean, mom?" and it works really well as a punch line.

But for serious comics. Different ballpark. I tend to make my decisions based on what the character would do, some of them curse and some of them not so much.[/quote]

I think I may alternate between the symbols and just dashes ("----ing dashes") and which I use usually depends on mood. I agree with you that the symbols would not fit with a more serious, dramatic comic and sometimes excessive swearing may have its place (horror comic for example). When I think of excessive swearing in comics, Penny Arcade pops into mind. I was a big fan of theirs, but at some point the language stopped adding to the humor and started to make it appear more and more juvenile to me.

A great example of swearing with a huge weight to it is in Bone and, I think, it's the only time a swear word is used in the series (and a fairly benign one at that). With Mark of the Beast, it just seemed a pointless way to limit my audience for what would essentially be cheap laughs.
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