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Annoying things in Webcomics
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oppernaR
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LukeSurl wrote:
When your comic gets popular on redditt but the gits have linked to a version on an image hosting site rather than your comic.


Welcome to the shunned side of the internets, Luke:
http://www.sfwchan.com/index.php?id=2786
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Traitorfish
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
This is all semantic bullshit that has been argued endlessly on the internet to no avail.

Bollocks. How we describe something represents how we understand something and its purpose. That is, whatever you may think, important. As long as the terms used are effective, then their use, and the discussion of their use, is relevent.

hollylaing wrote:
In the end, isn't it the finished work that really matters, not what the creator decides to call it?

Yes, but that does not mean that there's no merit in the effective use of descriptions. Communcation between creators and between creators and an audience is an important part of any medium, and if you wish to communicate effectively, you require the tools to do so.
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Lavenderbard
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pacmansays wrote:
Kinda, but I think we're discussing how graphic novel and comic book are really synonyms


They aren't synonyms because although there is nothing that is a graphic novel that is not a comic book there are things that are comic books that are not graphic novels.

A 24 page floppy is not a graphic novel. An Archie Comics Annual, or 'Best of the 80's' Compilation is not a graphic novel. The anthologies that jdalton is involved with are not graphic novels.
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Traitorfish
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lavenderbard wrote:
pacmansays wrote:
Kinda, but I think we're discussing how graphic novel and comic book are really synonyms


They aren't synonyms because although there is nothing that is a graphic novel that is not a comic book there are things that are comic books that are not graphic novels.

A 24 page floppy is not a graphic novel. An Archie Comics Annual, or 'Best of the 80's' Compilation is not a graphic novel. The anthologies that jdalton is involved with are not graphic novels.

Well said. No-one ever said that "graphic novels" were distinct from "comics", in the sense of the medium of sequential art, but that they describe a particular format. Film and television are, after all, fundamentally the same medium, but differ significantly in format and, consequentally, in form.
"Graphic novel", as commonly used by readers, refers to a single, self-contained story, equivalent to a novel but expressed in the form of sequential graphics. Given the increasing number of such comics, especially the recent increase in those published as a single volumes from the start, nessecitates such a word to distinguish them from long-form works that are fundamentally serial in nature. Granted, publishers and, particularly, merchants may use "graphic novel" as a synonym of "comic", but they have their own reasons for that, rooted far more in commerical motivation than in any interest in effective communication.
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bunnypandemic



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, let's talk about what the topic actually says.

I hate webcomics that download viruses onto my computer.

Idea (no ones uses this...)
Actually, let's talk about the skepticism over the Molecular Orbital Theory.
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Senshuu



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:0 That's what happens when one brings up types of webcomics they dislike, rather than annoying things in webcomics.

This isn't really a bad thing, but when I discover a webcomic I really like has alt text on all their pages right after I finish reading the entire archive, it drives me nuts. I have to go back and reread to look at all the alt text. And I mean actual "alt" text that doesn't come up when you hover in any browser other than IE, so you have to check the image's properties to read it - not "title" text, which is much easier to notice.
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Senshuu



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The funny thing is, Navi was never that annoying to me. At all. It's just something gaming comics beat into the ground.

I remembered something else that really annoys me: when authors summarize their comic page right below their comic or in their news. And that's pretty much all they do in terms of writing website content. How helpful, right?
It's just pretty pointless to do. "This is what happened in the page today. Enjoy!"

Now, one comic that actually does this in a fantastic way is By Moon Alone, which renders its current page in a very dramatic prose-y way. The author of BMA is actually a writer, among other things, and it shows.
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Liliy



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senshuu wrote:
The funny thing is, Navi was never that annoying to me. At all. It's just something gaming comics beat into the ground.


Thank-you. I loved that stupid Fairy. XD I was so upset when she left.


Annoying things in webcomics? Hmm. Not much bugs me.

The only thing I can think of is calendar archives and/or dated archives for story-form comics. They're not helpful.

If you strip is just a daily? Okay. That's fine. Use a date list with titles - a bunch of calendars with days as links doesn't tell me anything about the strip. I'm just clicking at random - invest in a random button instead. More fun.

Story form comics that don't have a storyline-style (or some form of grouping) archive, is a bit of a hassle as well. It's difficult to find old strips/places to reread.
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n9uxu



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liliy wrote:
Story form comics that don't have a storyline-style (or some form of grouping) archive, is a bit of a hassle as well. It's difficult to find old strips/places to reread.


You know, I fully understand what you're saying here, but I have never (as a reader) been able to make good use of a story line based archive when I go looking for something. It's probably just a sign of the way I process and story information, but if there's a date/title-based archive, I can zoom in on what I'm looking for in nothing flat. If I have to select storylines, it takes me forever.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Dave
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Metruis
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Page one: A cover.
Page two: Another cover splash page thing.
Page three: ANOTHER cover splash page thing.
Page four: Copyright.
Page five: Dedications.
Page six: "Cast" page.
Page seven: "Cast" page.
Page eight: Splash page cover for chapter one.
Page nine: FINALLY the first page.

That drives me absolutely crazy. I will sit through a 'cover' to the comic and a cover to the chapter and maaaybe one more splash type cover (dedications/copyright/cast/whatever) before I get sick of non-comic pages and leave.


Another thing that drives me crazy is...

CHAPTER ONE: is chapter one. Chapter one finishes, probably with a cliffie.

Next update... instead of being chapter two... is some sort of stupid 'humorous' sequence of pages. Now, I don't mind a chapter cover splash page here. I don't even mind one off topic chibi type page like would be seen at the end of a manga, or a question and answers page, or some sort of quickie while the artist gets things ready for the next chapter. One page! Sure, as long as it's at the end of a chapter! However, I've read more than one comic where they will do an entire inserted lolz storyline type thing, interviews, random chibi shit, random shit, pies, cast pages, flashback to when the main character was a baby, game show, letters to the editor (which drives me crazy if the comic is small and then the joke is 'oh, lol, no one's sent us any questions yet!!!'), maps, backstory, more stupid shit... and this 'insert' of stuff is half the length or even longer than chapter one.

That drives me crazy. I don't care about the artist's stupid inside jokes, throwing pies at the main characters, baby versions of the main characters, backstory and televised interviews with the characters and pages and pages of questions and answers. I don't want to see your fanservice pinups. GIVE ME THE NEXT CHAPTER. This stuff deserves to be in the gallery, or extras, or vote/donation incentives section of your site. Half the time it's inside jokes or things that involve knowing the characters much better than I'd ever know and I just mash through them because I don't find them funny. I don't care about the time your main character got drunk in college and puked on major villain unless it's part of the storyline. Now get ON with it!

This is part of the reason I don't follow a lot of comics update to update, due to the frequency of between chapter filler.



For story comics, for archives, I much prefer them set up in

CHAPTER ONE (possibly a date here)
page, page, page, page, page.
CHAPTER TWO (date)
page page page page page etc.

I don't like it cut into storylines; I like to be able to access every strip from the archives page... Darths and Droids does it well. Date. Number. Title. For serious comics, though, at least specify where each chapter starts if you're doing a date based archive, not everyone thinks by date. My best friend does... I don't. We co-write through Yahoo Messenger and I save our archives by name. She finds them by date, I find them by going through the titles and looking for 'Sara kills Bob', she looks for 'August 2008'. Archives should keep in mind both types of users.
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Senshuu



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol, I kinda did that with LF... (Volume cover, inside covers, a page and then a chapter cover and more pages...) But hopefully when I finish LF's actual volume cover/back the awesomeness of it will make up for the couple of inside splash pages there are. I tried to make them interesting, at least. You can still get through all of them in less than half a minute.

This is why I won't put in a table of contents yet though (especially since I have no idea how many pages things will be yet). That's just too much. (And cast pages? In the archives? Buh??) As for dedications, people can read my Special Thanks page for that.

As for cutting into storylines, I also hate doing that and hate when others do it, but I haven't seen anyone do such ridiculous kinds of filler in a long, long time. (And when they did, they weren't comics I stuck with.) The last comic I started reading that had mid-chapter filler was Flipside, and it was consistent and not quite too long...although I still had a hard time caring about it, being right after chapter 1 and all.


Also, a lot of webcomics seem to have poor pacing. I stopped actively following a whole bunch of them for that reason (I'll pop in on them every month or so now). They're still good, just not as suited for webcomic-format updating. This is also why I don't read as many strip comics... pacing doesn't matter as much there but they'll all seem kinda same-ish after a while.

Little things help you appreciate certain comics even more!

Another incredibly trivial little thing that bugs me is when comics are installed into /wordpress/ or /comic/ folders instead of their root folders for no reason. I even realized I could have just installed Wordpress alongside my regular sites' spaces instead of making another archive directory for them, but it at least makes a little sense there. But sites (or forums) that are entirely dedicated to that one thing, they don't need to be installed in a folder...hur.
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Metruis
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darc wrote:
*looks at Metruis' non-comic page intros list* That's... quite a list. Do people really put that many non comic pages at the beginning? Wouldn't it be easier to make a little text box on the bottom of the first page with that info? You know, how some of the older print comics use to do it - here's everyone who worked on the book, the copyright info, 'hi mom,' and the fact that I like pies.

I'm guilty of putting the cover of each issue online. Why? Because I do these for print and one of the things I make is a cover. And, if I'm going to spend 40+ hours making a damn cover then you can do me the honor of looking at it for 10 seconds. Wink

As for interludes, I can see how it could be annoying in the middle of a storyline. I don't see it as problematic when it comes at the end of a story arc, though. I do intermissions in between story arcs, including questions from readers. (Yes, I get actual questions. I started thinking few would ask and ended up opening a floodgate. Shocked ) Thing is, these do forward the plot. They give hints to the characters' lives as well as to what's coming in future story arcs. They're also used to keep subplots going and "minor" characters fresh in people's minds.

I ranted because about two hours before that post, I clicked on an ad for a comic and it LITERALLY had that many pages prior to the comic actually beginning. I counted. By five I was starting to wonder if there even was a comic or if this was just an art dump...

And don't get me wrong, interludes can be done well. If they're of a reasonable length... you know, a page or two, interviews, humorous, whatever... and not just the author running around chasing the character with pie/other filler. For a length longer than the actual chapter.

Again, I ranted because I'd just recently experienced that while reading through a comic. Great chapter... and then filler literally twice as long as the chapter of boring, non-plot advancing crap. And this was a comic where the plot was all about the action and there are these evil things, fight and kill them, RAWR... so leaving off for 25 pages of 'my character's high school party life as portrayed through a televised interview ending in food fights' didn't advance that plot at all. And then once that was done it immediately jumped back to the RAWR EVIL THINGS ATTACKING RAWR.

A cover doesn't bother me. A page or two doesn't bother me. A bit of character development on the side doesn't bother me. Even published manga often have a page or two at the end of each issue, plus the covers and cast page and index, etc. But, my goodness, that jolted me out of the story--and I was really interested in it from the first chapter. I don't know, maybe there was some plot relevance I was missing.

By the way, I do look at things like covers for more than 10 seconds. I respect the work artists put into these things and do savor the details... even if I could care less about my own covers. Cool Heck, I even spend time examining little panels if they're detailed, usually on a readthrough. Art is worthy of savoring. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'll oogle pretty art. Smile
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Metruis
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In line with what Metrius was saying, I don't particularly like the way Evil Diva handles interludes. I sort of wish they'd separate those out from the main story on the navigation. That is, I did wish, til I stopped reading it.

That was actually one of the ones I was thinking about--it wasn't the specific comic I was ranting about at that moment, but it was definately on my mind. I was enjoying the comic but wow, those were jolting.


Quote:
*laughs* Okay you ranted, now tell. I have to see this. I want to share in the ranting.

I think the person who makes the comic may have read this thread because over the last day she's actually edited it down to three pages (a cover, chapter cover, and dedications). So there would be no point to me linking it now. Laughing

That actually entertains me.

I don't like it when in the midst of mortal peril people start discussing their feelings too. Man, it's jolting.
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Senshuu



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol, that moment in Pirates was so ridiculous that it was awesome.

Anyway, I too oogle pretty artwork in covers and detailed panels. Which is why I'm such a slow reader of webcomics (not so much comics in print, for some reason, but I oogle them too), and is also why I read less of them simultaneously now (so time-consuming).
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smbhax.com
No! Don't post it there!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coffee jokes. =p
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