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Artist wanted for Joker fan-comic/ Pimpster gets pwned :(
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pimpster200390



Joined: 03 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:01 am    Post subject: pimpster200390 Reply with quote

kinda of wish you could have done this on a different thread but oh well...

>I still don't see why some of you have to be so hostile
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wendyw
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair, this happens a lot. It's not that anybody deliberately pushes anything off topic, but things are just allowed to go that way if that's the way the conversation goes. It's nothing personal and it happens to any thread that lasts long enough.
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Koad



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a thought if you want to stick with the Joker idea but don't want to worry about copyright infringement: why not create a new character with recognizable Joker-like qualities, but is not actually Joker? There're many examples of people pulling this type of thing off quite successfully - e.g. Wanted, and the currently ubiquitous Watchmen.
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Casual Notice
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pimpster200390 wrote:
Casual Notice wrote:
More to the point, Kail, we didn't seek him out offering unsolicited advice on how to solicit artists. He came to this forum seeking to solicit an artist for a fan project. Let's be honest, here. He provided no info, no writing samples, and no offer of payment.

To be honest, JD gave him the best advice anyone could: If your script is an improvement on the comic already created by authors that DC has paid for a published story, then submit it to them. They have a full stable of artists to produce the work once they have an approved script.


...................or you could just email me

Or you could do as suggested in the guidelines and not waste the very limited time that the artists here have. You're selling your idea. Unless you're also offering an industry-standard page rate, it is your job to make the artists here interested, not vice versa.

WWCD has attracted two artists to his comic because he has proved himself a good writer, both here and elsewhere. And before he asked for artist help, he made an honest (though regrettable) attempt to do the art on his comic himself.
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pimpster200390



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casual Notice wrote:
pimpster200390 wrote:
Casual Notice wrote:
More to the point, Kail, we didn't seek him out offering unsolicited advice on how to solicit artists. He came to this forum seeking to solicit an artist for a fan project. Let's be honest, here. He provided no info, no writing samples, and no offer of payment.

To be honest, JD gave him the best advice anyone could: If your script is an improvement on the comic already created by authors that DC has paid for a published story, then submit it to them. They have a full stable of artists to produce the work once they have an approved script.


...................or you could just email me

Or you could do as suggested in the guidelines and not waste the very limited time that the artists here have. You're selling your idea. Unless you're also offering an industry-standard page rate, it is your job to make the artists here interested, not vice versa.

WWCD has attracted two artists to his comic because he has proved himself a good writer, both here and elsewhere. And before he asked for artist help, he made an honest (though regrettable) attempt to do the art on his comic himself.
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pimpster200390



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Casual Notice
Why are you so snobbish? I apologize if my methods aren't up to your high standards but I just don't see how emailing is so difficult. I'd rather have a more personal conversation about my ideas then post them on a board. geeeeez
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Casual Notice
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pimpster200390 wrote:
@Casual Notice
Why are you so snobbish? I apologize if my methods aren't up to your high standards but I just don't see how emailing is so difficult. I'd rather have a more personal conversation about my ideas then post them on a board. geeeeez

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, wait, you were serious? I'm sorry, was I the one who claimed that a pair of professional comic authors who wrote a graphic novel according to the DC Bible on Joker did it wrong?

No, wait, I was the one who read the guidelines and then decided that I didn't need to even give them a nod. You think I have high standards because I gave you a tiny little bit of grief over your refusal to engage in simple common courtesy?

Those guidelines are there for your benefit. They're there because the artists here (and I'm not one of them; I'm a professional writer who manages to draw well enough that people's eyes don't actually bleed when they read my comic...just), those few who aren't already professional artists who pay for their lunch by being paid the industry standard for producing high-quality artwork, deserve some reasonable assurance that the proposed collaboration isn't going to be blown off at page 5 because the scripter got frustrated by the difficulty of developing a workable script, then got distracted by something shiny.

Why should anyone provide you with their e-mail address by e-mailing you? You have done and said nothing that would suggest that you are in any way reliable or trustable. In fact, your refusal to show even a fully developed concept paragraph suggests that either you haven't thought the idea all the way through or you simply don't trust anyone here not to steal your shining gem of a fanfic. Either way, you walk in at a disadvantage, because you've already alienated half of the people who may have helped you.
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pimpster200390



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casual Notice wrote:
pimpster200390 wrote:
@Casual Notice
Why are you so snobbish? I apologize if my methods aren't up to your high standards but I just don't see how emailing is so difficult. I'd rather have a more personal conversation about my ideas then post them on a board. geeeeez

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, wait, you were serious? I'm sorry, was I the one who claimed that a pair of professional comic authors who wrote a graphic novel according to the DC Bible on Joker did it wrong?

No, wait, I was the one who read the guidelines and then decided that I didn't need to even give them a nod. You think I have high standards because I gave you a tiny little bit of grief over your refusal to engage in simple common courtesy?

Those guidelines are there for your benefit. They're there because the artists here (and I'm not one of them; I'm a professional writer who manages to draw well enough that people's eyes don't actually bleed when they read my comic...just), those few who aren't already professional artists who pay for their lunch by being paid the industry standard for producing high-quality artwork, deserve some reasonable assurance that the proposed collaboration isn't going to be blown off at page 5 because the scripter got frustrated by the difficulty of developing a workable script, then got distracted by something shiny.

Why should anyone provide you with their e-mail address by e-mailing you? You have done and said nothing that would suggest that you are in any way reliable or trustable. In fact, your refusal to show even a fully developed concept paragraph suggests that either you haven't thought the idea all the way through or you simply don't trust anyone here not to steal your shining gem of a fanfic. Either way, you walk in at a disadvantage, because you've already alienated half of the people who may have helped you.


WHY IS EVERYONE SO HOSTILE!!!!!!!!!!
If you read my post I’ve withstood the negativity but enough is enough what does it accomplish for you to come across as a prick? "Oh, wait, you were serious? I'm sorry, was I the one who claimed that a pair of professional comic authors who wrote a graphic novel according to the DC Bible on Joker did it wrong?" Why are you taking it personally? All I stated was that I PERSONALLY didn't like it and was tired of people saying that I should right my own, so I did. But after witnessing how negative a lot of you are I am glad I didn't put my ideas here. Whether my script is good or not I would have probably been ripped to shreds by you “happy” people.
BTW not to be a jerk (because I’m really trying to keep a healthy relationship with people who I thought ENJOYED doing similar things) but if you're a writer why even read my thread?????
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Casual Notice
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, you may want to get a thicker skin if you think anyone has been hostile in here. I was laughing because you called me snobbish because I expected you to follow the simple rules (based on common courtesy) laid down in the guidelines.

Seriously, this forum is known far and wide for being too nicey-nice to be of any help to serious artists and writers. We haven't eaten you alive, we're trying to teach you to swim before you jump in the pools that have real sharks.
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pimpster200390



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casual Notice wrote:
Yeah, you may want to get a thicker skin if you think anyone has been hostile in here. I was laughing because you called me snobbish because I expected you to follow the simple rules (based on common courtesy) laid down in the guidelines.

Seriously, this forum is known far and wide for being too nicey-nice to be of any help to serious artists and writers. We haven't eaten you alive, we're trying to teach you to swim before you jump in the pools that have real sharks.

Exactly their not rules... their guidelines. Am not allowed to go about my life my way? Also if you really were trying to help thank you, but if i don't take your help don't bombard me with messages saying the same thing in different ways. I get it i didn't post everything you all wanted me to, I'm sorry. But seriously get over it, can this small a think really bother you?
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Beertycoon
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pimpster200390 wrote:
Casual Notice wrote:
Yeah, you may want to get a thicker skin if you think anyone has been hostile in here. I was laughing because you called me snobbish because I expected you to follow the simple rules (based on common courtesy) laid down in the guidelines.

Seriously, this forum is known far and wide for being too nicey-nice to be of any help to serious artists and writers. We haven't eaten you alive, we're trying to teach you to swim before you jump in the pools that have real sharks.

Exactly their not rules... their guidelines. Am not allowed to go about my life my way? Also if you really were trying to help thank you, but if i don't take your help don't bombard me with messages saying the same thing in different ways. I get it i didn't post everything you all wanted me to, I'm sorry. But seriously get over it, can this small a think really bother you?


Sure you are allowed to go your life your way, but you also gotto realise that by doing that you just need to accept the consequences for what they are instead of going into a hissy-fit when someone doesn't understand you
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togaparty



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone enough of this bullshit JESUS
He is asking for a artist for a FAN comic, which means prob 4 fun, he is not solving the answers of the universe. ITS A FUCKIN FANCOMIC How pathetic do yall have to be to argue for the most absurd reason, gimme a fuckin break. seriously why is this thread so goddamn active- oh i know cuz its filled with a bunch of little bitches >>> JUST DROP IT IF YOU WANNA HELP HIM JUST EMAIL HIM IF NOT THEN HIT THAT NICE BUTTON ON THE TOP LEFT CORNER TITLED "BACK"


great i just added to this pathetic pansy off
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Beertycoon
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

togaparty wrote:
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone enough of this bullshit JESUS
He is asking for a artist for a FAN comic, which means prob 4 fun, he is not solving the answers of the universe. ITS A FUCKIN FANCOMIC How pathetic do yall have to be to argue for the most absurd reason, gimme a fuckin break. seriously why is this thread so goddamn active- oh i know cuz its filled with a bunch of little bitches >>> JUST DROP IT IF YOU WANNA HELP HIM JUST EMAIL HIM IF NOT THEN HIT THAT NICE BUTTON ON THE TOP LEFT CORNER TITLED "BACK"


great i just added to this pathetic pansy off


so, who shitted in your cereal today?
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vulpeslibertas
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome, the thread is so agitated that it's not posting page 4. It even claims page 4 doesn't exist, even though it clearly claims it does. Most odd.

For our guests, nobody here was trying to be rude (That may have changed a bit since the beginning). We, the forum regulars, have long experience with "writers" who pop in, drop an e-mail address, and idea for the greatest epic fantasy robot gaming comic ever. These people are never seen again.

We were being snarky, not personal. Quite frankly, we didn't really expect you to be back. Re-read our posts in the light of that. Writing advertisements of that particular caliber are something of a *groan* joke, especially when there is a nice helpful suggestions post, explaining quite clearly the best way to advertise a writer here.

There are far more writers looking for partners than there are artists available. Such writers, deservedly or not, have garnered a reputation for being amateurs who can't really write, and want someone to make pretty pictures that will launch them into webcomic fame and fortune.

Chill out and the sharks will stop circling. We aren't mean-spirited, we can just smell blood in the water.


If you really do want to make a comic, practice your art. Drawing is not a magic ability, it is a skill. Some people have more natural talent than others, but almost anyone can learn to draw given time and practice. With the magic of stuff, you can also make comics out of legos, photos, felt cut-outs, or anything else you can imagine. Don't limit yourself.
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Chilari
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pimpster, calm down a second. You're getting worked up over nothing. You're getting annoyed at people on the internet. Now, I learned years ago that arguing with people on the internet is a bad idea, because a) who are they anyway? You're never going to meet them, b) they might be trolling, and c) it's even more pointless than arguing with people in real life.

Let's just address the key issues here. Your main concerns seem to be that, 1. you feel you recieved a hostile reaction, 2. you feel you don't need the guidelines to get an artist, and 3. You feel your thread has been derailed. Let's have a look at how these issues can be resolved.

1. Hostility.
Now, I realise my tone in my first post in this thread may be taken as being hostile. For that I apologise. As for the others, well, I doubt they intended to be hostile - we're not a hostile forum community in the main - and you should realise that it is very difficult to convey tone in a forum post. Much of the time, tone is interpretted by the reader rather than intended by the writer. Admittedly this is not always the case, but where the tone is abiguous, I prefer to give the writer the benefit of the doubt. Reacting as you did, defensively, may then have encouraged hostility. Nevertheless, most of the posts remained constructive and helpful. Koad for example, offered suggestions which you appear to have ignored. As for CN, you'll have to ask him, but I didn't take his posts as being hostile, merely constructive. Accusing him of snobbery is as such rude and uncalled for.

You must realise, however, that as Casual Noticed pointed out, we're one of the nice forums. Head over to one of the others (I'm sure someone will provide links; I don't know them myself) and you can see for yourself how harsh they can be. This is the internet; it's how it is.

2. Posting Guidelines.
Ok, so this bit, I sorta take a little personally, because I wrote those guidelines in the first place. They are based on advice given repeatedly by the members of this forum to writers such as yourself who come here in search of an artist, and wonder why they didn't get one when all they posted was a brief, vague description of the concept without giving examples of their writing. They are there to help. Every time someone posts a thread like this without taking note of the Posting Etiquette thread I wrote, I wonder why I bothered.

Yes, they're not rules, only guidelines, but that doesn't mean you should ignore them. They are there to help you find an artist, and as I have said, they are based on advice given many times over. You want an artist? It has been shown time and again that because of supply and demand, writers really have to sell their ideas. Most artists are working on their own project, and don't have the time to dedicate to someone else's project. Casual Noticed called the guidelines "simple rules" and really, they are very simple. And if a writer can't be bothered to spend the time to follow the guidelines, what does that say to the potential artists? It says "I can't be bothered, so why should you?"

So I reiterate: the guidelines in the Posting Etiquette thread i wrote are there to help writers find artists.

Now, if you've managed to find an artist already, fine, well done. You don't realise how lucky you are. Most people don't find an artist, even some who do follow the guidelines.

3. Thread derailing
Wendyw wrote:
To be fair, this happens a lot. It's not that anybody deliberately pushes anything off topic, but things are just allowed to go that way if that's the way the conversation goes. It's nothing personal and it happens to any thread that lasts long enough.

Need I say more? This is how this particular forum community works.


Oh, and I have two more brief points to make:

First, you need to brush up on your English. "I should right my own" - no, you should write your own; "their guidelines" - whose guidelines? You meant they're guidelines. This does not bode well for you as a writer if you can't get this right. It's fixable; just work on it.

Second, fancomic. Anywhere else, that would have been torn apart completely by the end of the first page. Here it promotes debate about copyright. Consider yourself lucky. You should bear in mind that fancomic and fanfiction are not, generally, regarded particularly positively. That's why no-one I know in real life (except my other half, who can see my computer monitor from his desk) knows I write fanfic, and why I don't use the same username on fanfiction.net as I do anywhere else. You really should be prepared for hostility if you want to get an artist to draw your fancomic, because honestly, anywhere but here of fanfiction.net, you'd be torn apart.



Togaparty:
That's really the most hostile thing that anyone has posted in this thread so far. Swearing is uncalled for - you may have noticed it is a rare occurence in this board. I find it strange you created an account just to post something so unpleasant. You're having a go at us because we started to debate about various problems that might arise as a result of the original post. Pimpster doesn't own the thread, and it happened to spark discussion, so why are you so annoyed about it? You could simply have taken your own advice - if you're not going to help, which you really aren't, then don't spout off like that, click back and forget about it. Don't get worked up over nothing.
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