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How many people are still super active on here?
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How many posts do you post a day?
None.
42%
 42%  [ 6 ]
1
35%
 35%  [ 5 ]
2-3
14%
 14%  [ 2 ]
5+
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
10+
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 14

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FlapjackStudios



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vulpeslibertas wrote:
Let's not bring back Bobbykins.


I don't get it. Who's that?

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FlapjackStudios



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vulpeslibertas wrote:
Don't confuse +EV with EV+.

Flapjack, it depends on what you mean by "saturated". All industries have a natural market size based on quality of product and price. Higher quality and lower price produce a larger market. If you lower the price low enough and raise quality high enough, the only limit to the market is the whole population.

Even though they are free, webcomics haven't hit "zero" price. There's internet access costs, the time it takes to read them, the difficulty costs of trying to find good comics, then trawl through their archives. This is time that people could be using to look up cats on the internet, so we're in indirect competition with them.

On the Quality side, most webcomics are lousy. 90% of them are 3 week projects by high school students. 9% are people like you and I with some moderate amount of webcomic skill, talent, and dedication. The remaining 1% are people like Phil Foglio, Penny Arcade, etc - professional level artists who effectively do webcomics on a full-time basis.

Webcomics "suffer" from a low barrier to entry. It's really easy to start a webcomic. Because of this, there's a large number of webcomics out there. This creates cut-throat competition in an industry where everybody is basically "working" for free. It's not an inherently money-making business. This really is a good thing for webcomic readers, because it gives them a huge supply of different comics. It does mean that it's nigh-to-impossible to make "real" money.

I think webcomics could benefit from an improved delivery system. I proposed such a system a while ago, but I'm such a flake it never got off the ground.


Interesting. What was this proposed system? Something like inkoutbreak? Or stumble upon just for comics?
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James Sawatsky
Postpostpostpostpost!


Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 1270
Location: Vancouver Island

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile It's nice to see the old names I used to bounce ideas off of.
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ewomack
Grand prize winner!


Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 469

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps webcomics, like so many other creative or competitive fields, is simply a winner take all game? A few become roaringly popular and rise to the top and appear in non-internet media (one gauge for the popularity of a webcomic is whether is has appeared outside of the internet) for whatever reasons one can fathom and the market can only handle a certain number of these?

If that's the case (and I don't know if it is), how does a webcomic become one of the mega-popular? How did Penny Arcade or XKCD become what they are? To say they are "the best" won't convince everyone, because a lot of great webcomics receive little or no attention. Popularity on that scale usually consists of more than viral link sharing, word of mouth marketing or just plain luck. Appearing in the New York Times, as XKCD has, involves far more than just generating site visits or likes on a top 1000 list.

Or does it start that way? Do links get exchanged until finally the "right person" (i.e., someone with connections) stumbles along it and decides to pass it on to their other "powerful" friends and colleagues? Is that how the legends are made?

I don't know. That sounds like a plausible scenario, but with all of the great work out there (I think far less than 90% of all webcomics, especially ones someone would actually hear about, are high school scrawlings) how do the few rise to the top? I'm guessing there is no formula but that each "mega-popular" comic has its own unique story that combines skill, drive, coincidence, connections and pure luck.

Depending on this answer, we seem to have a syndicate-like market running right now, or at least a similar outcome of one for revenue generating comics. The only difference is that the rest of us have a mass medium to post to.
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Ed Womack
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FlapjackStudios



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vulpeslibertas wrote:
ewomack wrote:
Perhaps webcomics, like so many other creative or competitive fields, is simply a winner take all game?
It depends what you mean by "winning".

If you mean having a large audience, easy tools for making and distributing webcomics, and lots of webcomics available, then I think we are all winning a lot more now than at the advent of the webcomic.

If you mean being better than everybody, then the competition is a lot more cutthroat than it ever was, and Penny Arcade is the only winner.

If you really want a successful webcomic, then you need to 1. focus on a message that a large number of readers will identify with, 2. polish your form so that it communicates that message, then 3. position it so that the readers you are targeting can see it. There's no voodoo about it, but it's not terribly well understood how one goes about each step.


This is so true its sick! There's no magical way to do it, everybody has to follow that formula. Its how the individual goes about promoting it that makes a difference, and that can be due to many factors. I mean first off, are you rich? If you are then you're set! There's one factor, or perhaps you're the type to shout out loud in public areas "Read my comic its really awesome!" I mean there are so many ways its mind boogling. You want to know where some of my traffic comes from? A school! Haha. A teacher likes my stuff and he shows his class his favorite PG versions if my comic. Bam. I met that person at a convention. So making a webcomic work can have a lot to do with personality too. Luck and finances. Social status you name it! Its nuts!

I think ppl should become friends online too and support each other however they can. That can help too.

Feel free to add to any if this. Haha.
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FlapjackStudios



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casual Notice wrote:
Funny thing, I don't remember "quality" being an element of either the Dewey Decimal or Library of Congress archiving systems. Quality is too subjective a term where art is concerned. If it weren't, Eragon and Twilight wouldn't exist as things in the popular culture.


Haha. True or cyanide and happiness. I suppose there's charm to badly drawn stuff. The writing has to be good though. What about those medium grade artists..not bad enough to capture that poorly drawn charm and not good enough to be the best of the best...sad times...sad times. Haha.

However I assume that those artists would just keep drawing until they became really good! Or maybe its all in the writing...
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FlapjackStudios



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casual Notice wrote:
I'm one of those medium-grade artists. You'd be surprised how much of art is actually talent and not practice at all. It's sad to work on something for a very long time and have your best work described as average and you worst described as ... well, not described at all because no one can bear to look at it for long enough to say anything.


I know it exists, pure talent that is, but I refuse to believe that those individuals didn't work hard to get there. Most artists I'm jealous of have had way more experience in drawing and animation than me. At least that's the way I like to look at it.

I also believe that anyone can get better at drawing as long as they keep doing it.
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FlapjackStudios



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casual Notice wrote:
My apologies, I didn't mean to say that hard work isn't a factor, just that hard work alone won't do it.


No worries. It would be annoying to work hard at something for years and then watch someone else do it effortlessly, I can definitely understand.
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FlapjackStudios



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man does anyone know this Wendy person who I have to ask about profile pics and signatures? I've asked already but when I went to find the how to tutorials, I couldn't. Are they hidden? Haha.
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FlapjackStudios



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wendyw wrote:
Hello.

I don't appear to have any PMs from you, so if you sent me one it got eaten before it got to me. Just end me the details of what you want and I'll sort it.


Cool. I sent you a pm. Thanks!
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FlapjackStudios



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wendyw wrote:
Done. Smile


Thanks so much!
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FlapjackStudios



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttallan wrote:
vulpeslibertas wrote:
These new kids just don't know how awesome it is to make web pages.

That may be so, but kids definitely know how awesome it is to make comics. As more and more educators are coming on board with how awesome comics are, they're even becoming part of the curriculum. If the industry is expanding anywhere, it's in the YA market.

It will be fascinating to see, in another 10-20 years, where this comics-reading generation goes.


10 years cool. 20 years, yikes! I'll be so old! Haha. I often wonder where media in general will be in 20 years. It can't just stay stagnant forever, gotta at least have nano bots and brain/optic implants or something. Just load up a webcomic from your brain. Haha. In fact upload your brain to the internet and view memories in real time...create artworks instantly using photoshop CS27s neural link. Haha. I can dream...
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FlapjackStudios



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wendyw wrote:
Yeah, you totally need to post here more often.

Also, everyone should go read this thread.

Yes, that is entirely off-topic but I don't care.

Rolling Eyes


Cool. I always yearn to do these but never have the time.
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FlapjackStudios



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Posts: 126

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

19000 hits on this topic thread alone is certainly enough to answer my question... partially. 19000 hits but only four pages of posts...so perhaps a lot of guests check out these forums.
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MindChimera



Joined: 03 Feb 2013
Posts: 317

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget our friendly neighborhood spambots.
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