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How many people are still super active on here?
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How many posts do you post a day?
None.
42%
 42%  [ 6 ]
1
35%
 35%  [ 5 ]
2-3
14%
 14%  [ 2 ]
5+
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
10+
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 14

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ttallan
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Joined: 28 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vulpeslibertas wrote:
These new kids just don't know how awesome it is to make web pages.

That may be so, but kids definitely know how awesome it is to make comics. As more and more educators are coming on board with how awesome comics are, they're even becoming part of the curriculum. If the industry is expanding anywhere, it's in the YA market.

It will be fascinating to see, in another 10-20 years, where this comics-reading generation goes.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If educators are embracing comics, then comics are doomed. Every part of youth culture from John Knowles to rap music feels the icy hand of death once the "with-it" adults and "hip" child psychologists of the education system invites it to the party.

Also most teachers and all text book authors have like a million skill points at turning fascinating material into mind-numbing drudgery.
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ttallan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, those teachers... I remember how everyone was complaining way back when about those newfangled computers being brought into the classrooms. Ruined it for everybody. </sarcasm>

If we have anyone to blame for comics coming to the attention of the education market, it's Jeff Smith. When Scholastic reprinted Bone in colour, they opened the door for the world at large to excellent comics for kids. Now the Scholastic Graphix line is full of great stuff, and there are other publishers trying to copy that success.
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leesargent



Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttallan wrote:
I do think that we've had to become more creative to make any kind of money at it.


Just wondering how was money made in the heyday? Just advertising?

Cheers!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has nothing to do with teachers being teachers, it has to do with them being adults. Stupid or not, fashion in the west is set by a bunch of idiots whose brains haven't even fully developed yet, and they have an instinctive drive to rebel against parental (even in loco) authority. The minute you stop being one of the guys and become the Grown Up, you stop being cool, no matter how cool you used to think you were.

Personally, I think the whole "Pants on the ground" thing would go away the minute adults started embracing it as a fashion. Let Will Farrell or Vince Vaughn waddle their middle-aged butts around in some grampa pants, and see how long the kids continue to think they look cool.
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vulpeslibertas
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

leesargent wrote:
Just wondering how was money made in the heyday? Just advertising?
It wasn't.


To be more serious, money used to be made through advertising, merchandizing, and selling physical copies. But even in the heyday, most big comics did not make sustainable levels of income. Trying to make money in webcomics is like trying to make money hoola-hooping on the street corner, it always has been.

However, in the heyday, there were lots of webcomics. Good ones, bad ones, were popping up every day. There were lots of new stories, characters, and a vibrant support community of webcomic lists, reviewers, etc. It isn't really any harder to make webcomics today than it used to be, which indicates a shift in social priorities.
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ewomack
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Joined: 05 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how many people were (and are) lured into webcomics with the expectation of enormous fortune or fame? Even Kate Beaton, a pretty popular webcomic artist said that no one has yet retired off of webcomics.

Opportunities for fortunes such as Charles Schulz' - who back in the 1980s was making a million a month - don't seem to exist on the web. The competition and market remain too diverse and diffuse for a few comics to dominate and corner the market the way Peanuts, Garfield, Calvin & Hobbes and others did in the highly controlled and focused market of newspapers.

If anything, the internet is closer to a pure "free market." Anyone can make a webcomic. Anyone can promote. The startup costs are almost nil (once one has a computer and an internet connection). The barriers to entry are almost nonexistent. The downside of this remains the glut of other webcomics all vying for attention and readership. The market has saturated and even the most popular webcomics will only capture a fraction of the potential market. If the internet were to close up and only allow 10 webcomics to exist, those lucky few would probably make vast sums of money because readers would have to focus on those. Newspapers provided a similar filter and thus allowed, by maintaining nearly impossible barriers to entry, for market concentration and fame and fortune beyond anything the open internet will likely ever see.

Do webcomics because you love to. Not for fame or fortune. Treasure or fame seekers will likely be disappointed.
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ttallan
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I disagree that the webcomic market has saturated. I don't think it's really even opened up yet. How many random people in your neighborhood even know what webcomics are? Or if they have heard of webcomics, how many are likely to shrug them off as... as...

OK, I was about to throw on a stereotype but I really don't know how the rest of the world views webcomics. Gamer-stuff? Porn? Badly-drawn crap?

Back to the point. Webcomics haven't reached anywhere near the awareness level of newspaper comics, and nearly everyone can think of at least one newspaper comic they enjoy. I know to us in the biz it seems like webcomics have been around forever and people starting a webcomic now are too late to get in when the getting was good, but really, it's still a new thing. The whole internet is still shaking out and trying to find equilibrium.

The observation that no one has retired off of webcomics yet seems... misleading. As I said, webcomics are still new. Nobody who started their career in webcomics has reached retirement age yet! Very Happy And if anyone has actually earned enough money to retire on (let's say, the Penny Arcade guys), they probably love what they do too much to think about retiring. Charles Schultz didn't retire with his millions, right?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Charles Schultz didn't retire with his millions, right?

Technically, he did. He just had the bad luck to die a month later.
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ewomack
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kate Beaton's point was more that no one is actually making enough money from webcomics to retire and never work again, not whether they would or wouldn't retire if given the chance. And given the way the market is now, no one probably can anyway. I have doubts that that will change unless webcomic syndicates with large money and promotional power behind them rise up and corner the market. And it may not even change then because the syndicates will of course take a chunk of the revenue.

Of course it's possible that an entrepreneurial webomic will come along and make a Peanuts-like impact, but it seems highly unlikely. There are just so many webcomics, and so many really great ones, out there, for any one or few to easily rise to the top. That's what I mean by claiming that the market is saturated - there are thousands, possibly tens of thousands, of webcomics out there. Just about every time I open my browser I run into a new webcomic that I've never seen before. They're everywhere. A wall of confusion faces anyone who delves into the genre and the average lover of newspaper comics would probably quickly find themselves overwhelmed when faced with the dizzying array of choices and subgenres on the internet.

But if we're also counting adult comics, the whole game may change... some of them may actually be raking it in... I don't know... just a guess... that stuff seems to sell in any format.
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Marscaleb



Joined: 28 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, sites have an ebb and flow; they have waves of interest.

At one point, a forum may seem slow. People that frequented it before may stop visiting.

At another point, the forum will seem busy. New members join and participate.

If the forum seems slow now, it will pick up later.
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Lavenderbard
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I come by fairly frequently, but I don't post much.
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FlapjackStudios



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Wow! Reply with quote

Well there is at least more of you on here than I first thought given the responses. So that's good at least! Haha.

I can't reply to all of you yet but this is good news, at least for me. You guys mentioned hay days huh? I wonder what it was like when this forum was happening? But hey, I'm new here too, so if I can have conversations like this then I'll stick around, fo sho!

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vulpeslibertas
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They hay days were about 5 years ago (more or less).

The primary problem is that many of the heavyweights moved on with their lives. We've also talked about many of the big technical and philosophical issues in webcomics. Without somethjng to talk about, there isn't much reason to talk.

But the forum comes alive when there's something to talk about. If you want to see the forum come back to life, you've got to make sure you start interesting conversations.
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Lavenderbard
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vulpeslibertas wrote:
They hay days were about 5 years ago (more or less).


Okay, yeah, but we're still awesome at identifying "this comic I remember reading once" for people.

At least, y'all are awesome at it. Me, I just sit back and admire the amount of dedicated comic reading that must be going on behind the scenes.
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