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What hangs you up?
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mcmasters



Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Posts: 436

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:19 am    Post subject: What hangs you up? Reply with quote

Drawing characters from behind or three-quarters from behind. I'm spending hours on it. I suppose it's a "learning process" and once I figure it out it will look natural and feel natural to draw, but right now I just can't get the turn of the neck, the jawline, the hint of the nose, how the cheek interacts with the eye and socket. Not that my front-on stuff looks brilliant, but it's up to my standards.

So what do you dread drawing? What trips you up?

---

www.mcmasterscomics.com
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MindChimera



Joined: 03 Feb 2013
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haaaaands. Usually. If I take my time I can make them look good enough, but there's always that starting point when I think "can I get away with not showing hands here, or would it really add something to the scene?" And 95% of the time, I lose that battle and opt to draw them. Then I erase them and start over, because I realize the hand I've drawn is at in terrible position that no one would ever hold their hands in casually.

I have a small mirror that I keep near my desk. I mostly use it for facial expressions, but sometimes I use it for hand angles. Only trouble with that is I need one of my hands to hold up the mirror, haha.

I have some stock hand photos that I downloaded but I usually look at my own hand for reference.
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Spencey



Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 640
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: What hangs you up? Reply with quote

mcmasters wrote:
Drawing characters from behind or three-quarters from behind. I'm spending hours on it. I suppose it's a "learning process" and once I figure it out it will look natural and feel natural to draw, but right now I just can't get the turn of the neck, the jawline, the hint of the nose, how the cheek interacts with the eye and socket. Not that my front-on stuff looks brilliant, but it's up to my standards.


Try this:

1. Draw your character as normal (front-on or three quarters) in pencil.
2. Erase all the inside lines so you are left with the silhouette.

In theory this silhouette should be the same silhouette if you were drawing them from behind.

3. Re-draw the inside lines as if you were looking at them from behind.


I drew one of my characters standing in front of a mirror recently and used this technique. Hope this helps.

---

As for me, I get really hung up on coming up with different poses. I set out to have them in different positions but my brain seems to have a default drawing setting of 3/4-view standing straight position. It's quite frustrating.
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Lo (Aquapunk)



Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Extreme forshortening always gets me. Unfortunately my characters are fish-people, so they are sometimes in completely horizontal swimming positions in regards to the viewer... I've got a couple stock poses for this sort of thing, but stock poses suck.

It's like... how do they do this??



Oh and also work hangs me up pretty good too.
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ttallan
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Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1128
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm almost embarrassed to say this because every artist I've ever met rolls their eyes at a response like this, but backgrounds are the bane of my comic-creating existence. I hate drawing them. I hate futzing with perspective. I hate that they never look as good as what I imagine. I do them anyway because you can't very well tell a story without the setting, but it's a slog every time.

Colouring takes a close second place, because I've drawn a black and white comic for years and years and just this month I've finally gritted my teeth and made the switch. I'm anticipating many mistakes and frustrations along the way.
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nsanelilmunky



Joined: 12 Nov 2012
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hands, feet, and consistency. I'm getting better with all of them, but they're still a pain. Hands and feet are off because they're not as easy to block-up when I'm making the general shapes and consistency because I nit pick and want my people to look exactly the same in each picture.

Coloring digitally seems to be a problem for me too, but I don't have a mental problem with that since I'm still trying to get my program figured out.

I'm crossing my fingers that I get the summer job I want so I can buy the macbook I want and photoshop. Then I can actually do everything all the tutorials say. GIMP is a bit of a hang up right now as it has been irritating me with some of the limitations (glitchy, laggy, can't eyedrop through layers, file size restrictions, doesn't have all the shortcuts that photoshop has, etc).
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Aglari



Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttallan wrote:
I'm almost embarrassed to say this because every artist I've ever met rolls their eyes at a response like this, but backgrounds are the bane of my comic-creating existence. I hate drawing them. I hate futzing with perspective. I hate that they never look as good as what I imagine. I do them anyway because you can't very well tell a story without the setting, but it's a slog every time.

Colouring takes a close second place, because I've drawn a black and white comic for years and years and just this month I've finally gritted my teeth and made the switch. I'm anticipating many mistakes and frustrations along the way.


Seconded, environments KILL me. I can immediately see how important they are to the quality of the comic but so tedious!
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Lady Tygry



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Buckeye State

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything abstract. "Artsy" designs.

While I wish I could attribute any other representation through lineart that's less than stellar to a lack of practice, laziness is most likely the culprit. I'm notoriously impatient when it comes to working on a single piece and the longer I work on one piece, the more likely I am to suddenly rush through just to move on to the next project.

Areas in which I'm consciously trying to improve:

color theory
paneling
pacing
backgrounds (I hate them; it's a chore to give them the time they deserve)
EDIT: and how could I forget my bane-- proper, consistent lighting. I have to overthink it to get 'presentable.'


Last edited by Lady Tygry on Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Varethane



Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 559

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lo (Aquapunk) wrote:



Haha that is in fact the exact image my high school art teacher showed the class, to simultaneously explain what foreshortening is and demonstrate how NOT to do it .... (with the additional visual aid of a drawing showing what the figure's proportions would have to be for his head and chest to be that size while being looked at from such an extreme angle)

.....That said, yeah, foreshortening. :X It's a killer. I have the hardest time with upward-facing camera angles (worm's eye views) because as I draw I keep trying to normalize the figures, and angle ends up being way less extreme than I intended it to be. Which usually kills the shot, because then I can't feasibly include all of the things I had meant to include... bleh.
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Casual Notice
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Joined: 18 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clothes, especially overclothes, are the bane of my artistic existence. The more layers, the harder it is to draw the outfit convincingly.
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Metruis
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Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, I love doing backgrounds and settings. (hides) Best part of my day. I always wanted to be someone's background artist and just only do settings.

Which might make it a surprise that my bane is setting related.

PERSPECTIIIIIIIIIIIVE. (fist shake) I can't get it. I've tried so many methods. I'm not a straight lines person. I can't do those glossy sci-fi cities because they involve so much straightness, so much perspective. It's not so bad if it's, like, broken windows and interiors, but city exterior shots from above, anything with three point perspective... (sheds a tear)

Everything except for glossy sci-fi stuff, neighborhoods with lots of houses, city shots from above, oh I dunno, space ships... that's all up to my standards. It might not be perfect, but there's wiggle room. It's probably related to my lack of lineart. If I was inking with a ruler I bet I'd be fine setting up perspective shots. But, ah well.

I also hate Illustrator. Shocker?
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iaviv



Joined: 03 Sep 2011
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dynamic poses and extreme perspective. Don't think I'll ever be able to get these right.
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Marscaleb



Joined: 28 Aug 2012
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttallan wrote:
I've drawn a black and white comic for years and years and just this month I've finally gritted my teeth and made the switch.


Okay I'll start reading your comic then, since now it is actually worthy of being cared about.

...

What hangs me up is just how long everything takes. I keep hoping to get faster, slowly building a buffer, but instead I seem to get slower, and my buffer gets eaten.

I could possibly parrot just about everything that has been said here; my hands never look right, my (hand-drawn) backgrounds don't look like I hoped, I couldn't get clothes to look real if my life depended on it, blah blah blah, I could pick just about anything, but I don't usually care for too long. So what if my hands look bad? I can't exactly claim that everything else is a masterpiece, so if anything they just fit with the style.

At best I would say that I get held up with drawing characters from the side. The first time I tried that they looked absolutely terrible. Since then they've only looked slightly more presentable. I keep trying some different things and looking for cues as to what I'm doing wrong, and I still don't have it right.

But I won't say that I dread drawing it. I'm slowly figuring it out, and one of these days I'll get it right.
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Lady Tygry



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Buckeye State

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marscaleb wrote:

At best I would say that I get held up with drawing characters from the side. The first time I tried that they looked absolutely terrible. Since then they've only looked slightly more presentable. I keep trying some different things and looking for cues as to what I'm doing wrong, and I still don't have it right.

But I won't say that I dread drawing it. I'm slowly figuring it out, and one of these days I'll get it right.


Profiles can be a pain and the tendency is to take the easiest angle and draw a human profile with only one eye showing-- a perfect half-face. I found construction drawing to be helpful as it forces you to start treating characters as though they're on a 3D plane even if their representation never leaves the 2D realm.

This is a mixture of thoughts on expressions from Lackadaisy's Tracy Butler: http://lackadaisy.foxprints.com/exhibit.php?exhibitid=333

I like the representation of the siamese cat in the far right during the brief bar scene. There's a couple profile shots where you cannot see his right eye and a couple where you can see it without it quite being a 3/4 front view. These in-between representations are where a lot of artists struggle. My suggestion would be to practice drawing faces from these angles (any tricky angles, really) to expand your comfort zone.

Here's a nice breakdown to get anyone who needs help started:

http://www.stanprokopenko.com/blog/2009/05/draw-head-any-angle/
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Lo (Aquapunk)



Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Varethane wrote:
Lo (Aquapunk) wrote:



Haha that is in fact the exact image my high school art teacher showed the class, to simultaneously explain what foreshortening is and demonstrate how NOT to do it .... (with the additional visual aid of a drawing showing what the figure's proportions would have to be for his head and chest to be that size while being looked at from such an extreme angle)

.....That said, yeah, foreshortening. :X It's a killer. I have the hardest time with upward-facing camera angles (worm's eye views) because as I draw I keep trying to normalize the figures, and angle ends up being way less extreme than I intended it to be. Which usually kills the shot, because then I can't feasibly include all of the things I had meant to include... bleh.


Oh yeah, it's definitely weird if you think about it, but it still works. It reads the way its supposed to.

I guess add "figuring out when to exaggerate a foreshortened angle and when to depict it realistically" to my sadface conundrums. :V
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