TWCL

[AIPman1]

My name is Ian Shires, and I publish Self Publisher! Magazine. We are currently working on a Kickstarter project for the magazine, to do a print copy giveaway at the SPACE show in Columbus, Ohio in April. We feel that putting copies into the hands of readers, will do a lot more than putting a flier into their hands and hoping they download it.
In the past few years, we’ve seen magazines that cover small press and indy publications – up to and including Wizard and Comic Buyer’s Guide, stop putting out issues. The economics of newsstand distribution is obvious, however, we feel that there is still a solid need for magazines that cover indies and do interviews and reviews. A website alone is not enough, I know – I tried SP! As a website-only for a year, and we did not get real attention until we started doing PDF issues.
We would like to ask you to look over our project, where you can download right now for free our latest issue (#62), and see more what we are trying to accomplish. I thank you for your time and any attention you give to us.

The URL: http://kck.st/UMZhBG

[Casual Notice]

Is Self Publisher! magazine a non-profit enterprise? If not, then why are you trying to gather donations via kickstarter "premiums" than actual investors based on a solid business plan?
_________________
What I lack in sincerity, I make up for in sarcasm.
S*P*Q*R

[AIPman1]

Well, SP! runs basically as "not for profit" - I have run it on and off since 1989. Those of us working on it, are volunteers, doing the best we can with what we have. We're doing this kickstarter to try to give away print copies to potential new readers, plain and simple. If you know investors who want to try to help us out, I'll be happy to talk to them. Send them to mny e-mail: Ian@dimestoreproductions.com

[Traegorn]

Casual Notice wrote:

Is Self Publisher! magazine a non-profit enterprise? If not, then why are you trying to gather donations via kickstarter "premiums" than actual investors based on a solid business plan?

You do understand that the entire point of Kickstarter is for people to find a way to raise money (often for-profit) other than traditional investors right?

In fact, I can't think of a single "non-profit" kickstarter project.

[AIPman1]

Lol, yea, it's even in their rules, they don't do non profit fundraising. The funny thing here is I'm doing trying to give away the profits here, lol. The guy that approved my project felt it was a creative take on things, but since it is $$ going towards printing, it fits their niche.

[Casual Notice]

Traegorn wrote:

Casual Notice wrote: Is Self Publisher! magazine a non-profit enterprise? If not, then why are you trying to gather donations via kickstarter "premiums" than actual investors based on a solid business plan? You do understand that the entire point of Kickstarter is for people to find a way to raise money (often for-profit) other than traditional investors right? In fact, I can't think of a single "non-profit" kickstarter project.

No, I'm a complete moron and have been living under a rock on the moon for the last three years.

Now that that's out of the way, let me explain my polite question. It's one thing to open a Kickstarter page and allow those who choose to support you to hand over a few sheckels; it's even acceptable to advertise your kickstarter on your own site.

What is not acceptable is going out onto the Internet and trying to guilt people into supporting what is clearly your personal hobby, especially when a disproportionate number of those people are college and high school students either spending their parents money or (more likely) amassing huge piles of unrecoverable personal debt through their lack of economic comprehension.
_________________
What I lack in sincerity, I make up for in sarcasm.
S*P*Q*R

[Traegorn]

...where's the attempt to guilt people?

[ttallan]

Casual Notice wrote:

What is not acceptable is going out onto the Internet and trying to guilt people into supporting what is clearly your personal hobby, especially when a disproportionate number of those people are college and high school students either spending their parents money or (more likely) amassing huge piles of unrecoverable personal debt through their lack of economic comprehension.

And at this pronouncement, all the webcomic creators all over the world put down their pencils and tablets forever, deeply ashamed of themselves.
_________________

[Casual Notice]

Traegorn wrote:

...where's the attempt to guilt people?

Quote:

In the past few years, we’ve seen magazines that cover small press and indy publications – up to and including Wizard and Comic Buyer’s Guide, stop putting out issues. The economics of newsstand distribution is obvious, however, we feel that there is still a solid need for magazines that cover indies and do interviews and reviews.

That's a pretty clear visceral plea. I see no real difference between what's quoted above and Pat Robertson's pleas to separate your grandmother from her social security food allowance so he can save Falon Gon cultists from Chinese prisons.

Ttallan: I state pretty plainly that asking for donations or kickstarter participation on ones own site was a different matter. Advertising ones own site is also a different matter (one may assume that, for the cost of a click, one can receive at least a moment's entertainment). Pushing your kickstarter outside of the bounds of those who benefit from your project is as morally wrong as TV preachers and political parties that send mass-mailing donation requests disguised as opinion polls.
_________________
What I lack in sincerity, I make up for in sarcasm.
S*P*Q*R

[AIPman1]

Well..I'm 44 years old, have been publishing small press and self published stuff, like, forever...so yeah, this is my lifelong hobby. That does not change the fact that Self Publisher Magazine, read by more people, would be more effective in helping new people find new things they might never have heard of otherwise.

I am not asking anyone to not eat lunch and help with this project instead. I do not see awareness of the project being GUILT if you can't help. In fact, if anyone here is interested in being featured IN the magazine, feel free to contact me. Ian@dimestoreproductions.com I'll do what I can to help make sure you earn lunch $$.

I'm not looking to earn a paycheck from SP! - I have the luxury of as long as it's not losing a ton of money, I can keep it going forever. The help we're looking for is to give away copies to potential new fans of everyone else's stuff. So, obviously no one here would have known about SP! if I had not posted this...is that MORALLY WRONG? I think not. Casual...I understand not wanting to see a ton of spam stuff on a forum. This project is not about trying to get $$ for a personal project...this is wholly about trying to bring new readers to a place they can learn about new things. If you can't get behind that, it's cool...not here to argue with you. But I honestly feel this project is worth the effort of telling strangers about it, and, I have already made a BUNCH of new friends on the way. You'll be able to read about a lot of them in future issues, if you want. The magazine is a free download.

http://kck.st/UMZhBG

[Traegorn]

Casual Notice - that doesn't read like a guilt trip to me. It sounds like an explanation.

You react to things weirdly.

[Casual Notice]

Traegorn wrote:

Casual Notice - that doesn't read like a guilt trip to me. It sounds like an explanation. You react to things weirdly.

Really? The passage quoted uses the exact same wording that is used in "Save Our Downtown" flyers you find in smallish towns that are concerned about people going to the outlet mall (or nearby Wal-Mart).

I'll admit, I have a wild hair about Kickstarter. I was always on the fence about it. The couple of Kickstarters I'd checked always offered premiums and never any kind of investment opportunity (I always have my eye out for a reasonable investment), not even a maturity bond, but I figured, they were mostly minor projects by people who didn't have the necessary connections to make a real go of things--student projects, really--and if they wanted to panhandle for the funds they needed to put their jumping platform game (that is totally NOT Mario with different sprites) on the iPhone app store, then, more power to them.

I got a little tick activated when I read promotions for a bunch of game projects by designers that had left their company (or were moonlighting a pet project)--these had the potential to make a five or six figures, and even if the designer was cutting strings by leaving his company, it struck me that s/he might offer some fair value for the investment (no, a $0.78 CD/DVD is not fair value for a $75 investment).

But I really got kicked over to the Kickstarter=BAD side of the fence when Tarol Hunt of Goblins pushed a steampunk TV series project he'd run across (mind you,. this is not a criticism of Hunt--he liked the project and gave his pound of flesh and was just throwing it out there for likeminded folks to give it a shot). I checked out their KS page, and discovered this wasn't some fringe idea. This was a team of Industry Professionals producing a viable pilot for submission. They were asking for hundreds of thousands of dollars (they had a 10K donation level) and in that request for people to back a project with multi-million dollar potential the best they could offer (remembering that they had donation levels above 10K) was "Producer credit" and a prop from the set.

Do I think all Kickstarter projects are as disingenuous as that one? No. Do I think that Kickstarter itself is designed to separate the stupid and the follish from money they can't afford to lose (much like a TV preacher's donation campaign)? Yes, yes I do. I can't say for sure, but I don't think Kickstarter projects are even allowed to offer a reasonable return on investment.
_________________
What I lack in sincerity, I make up for in sarcasm.
S*P*Q*R

[AIPman1]

Yeah, in fact, you can't offer any ownership of company or "piece of profit" incentives, they won't approve the project.

Hey, this Kickstarter thing - I thought I'd give it a shot to see if I could try to do something a little different with it. If nothing else, it got me to get the word out about my magazine in a way I don't normally do. Whether the funding of a giveaway printing succeeds or not, I'm taking this all as a positive experience in "getting the word out".

I do know this: What USED to work...five years ago...doesn't anymore. So that's why I'm trying other things.

[nsanelilmunky]

The thing with most kickstarters is that people donate because they want to see an end product, not get something from the people seeking money. People donated to the Windershins Kickstarter because they wanted to see an eventual book, same with the Dreden Kodak one that's currently going on. The ones like the steampunk show or feminist frequency's youtube videos was all about getting the money so that they could do the projects. Video production isn't cheap, especially if you want professional quality. Going the indie route just means that they don't have to deal with contracts that will try and take full or partial ownership of copyright. There's a good number of musicians on there for that same reason.

[Traegorn]

Like I said, Casual Notice reacts to things weirdly.