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Oh look, another webcomic redistribution site!
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dracony



Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, just so you know, I have emailed all the artists of the listed comics + some additional ones and i'm getting around 60% positive responses, so you are wrong if you think that artists actively oppose it.
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wendyw
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Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dracony wrote:
Well, just so you know, I have emailed all the artists of the listed comics + some additional ones and i'm getting around 60% positive responses, so you are wrong if you think that artists actively oppose it.


Clearly some do as you've mentioned on the news page about having to take down comics. Also, almost everyone who posts regularly on this forum is a webcomic writer or artist.
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dracony



Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It also seems that some artists who actually want to share their work can't do so because their comic hosting doesn't allow syndication etc, and they are not making any money either, because all those free hosts just put their own ads, not the artists' ones.

So what I thought is adding webcomic hosting to the site. What would it take to convince users to switch from lets say smackjeeves? I am not planning on having any ads on the site for one thing (that costs circa 20$ on smackjeves yearly) and also providing a subdomain for free too. I don't really want there to be any paid features at all (im a communist =) )
do you think people would switch?
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dpat57
Ich bin ein webcomicker


Joined: 11 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dracony wrote:
Well, just so you know, I have emailed all the artists of the listed comics + some additional ones and i'm getting around 60% positive responses, so you are wrong if you think that artists actively oppose it.

Mmm no, I oppose what you did without asking for permission first. In principle, that is, since it didn't affect me personally. I think I'd need to have higher visitor stats and a big following before you swiped my comics. You're correcting your mistake now, which is good, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place and trying to justify your actions really doesn't work.
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vulpeslibertas
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Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dracony wrote:
(im a communist =)
And here I had the impression that you were the reincarnation of Adam Smith.

As far as webcomic hosting goes, what reason are you giving anyone to get hosted by you? What control over their site layout do they get? How do they upload? What if they want to run their own advertisements? I think most of the webcomics you've linked already have their own hosting, their own business model, their own advertisements. What are you doing for them that they can't already provide for themselves?

You have to provide a benefit. If they want a hosting service, there are already hosting services out there, what are you offering in order to compete? You've got to provide more benefit than the other guy.

If you're offering free hosting, with no advertisements, then how can you afford to keep your server up? What guarantee can you provide that you're going to remain up and running?

A webcomic host isn't a bad idea, but why would anyone choose you? You've gotten off to a pretty rotten start, and most of the webcomickers here you're talking to are offended. They aren't going to be among your first customers. How are you going to repair that PR damage?
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Marscaleb



Joined: 28 Aug 2012
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, Ink Outbreak and Comic rocket are good systems because
1) They actually take you to the comic's actual page. The comic author still gets hits registered and can tell how many people are reading, their ads show up and altogether anything beyond the comic itself that they have labored on and wish to share is actively available.
2) You can clearly notice which comics have been added/approved by the original author versus ones that were just listed at the request of a reader.
3) Their systems are built to handle vast numbers of comics in their systems.

Looking at your page, it looks more like an over-glorified list of your favorite comics. I don't mean to offend by that, but let me walk you through this. The first thing I noticed was that you had Sluggy Freelance listed with the same glory as every other comic. When I saw this, I immediately felt a little stricken. On Ink Outbreak and Comic Rocket they both list Sluggy without any graphics, showing that it was listed by the readers and not the author. I doubt that you succeeded where they had not, and I felt a little-bit lied-to.
Then when I tried to view more comics, I found the list extremely short. It was easy to venture a guess that this was a list you as the creator made, and it has not grown since.

I also want to say something about the option to view the comic by itself, but I think it has all been said already. I think the only people who haven't expressed a dissatisfaction with this feature are those who have not been made aware of it. This is theft.

What I want to say in closing here is pretty simple. There is already Ink Outbreak and Comic Rocket. They are nice systems. Why do we need more? Unless there is something you are bringing to the table that they are not, you're just saturating the market. Don't.
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dracony



Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually Sluggy freelance approved of the site. I received the reply yesterday.

As for why am I doing this money-wise, I host a lot my own sites that actually generate a lot of incoome, so keeping the server running isnt a problem. Just wanted to do some good (communist remember).

From what I noticed Ink breakout doesnt allow you to switch pages, just swithc comics, and comic rocket is kinda slow imo. Try switching a page on comicrocket and on webcomicbox.com. There a large delay between the two
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Casual Notice
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Joined: 18 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I host a lot my own sites that actually generate a lot of incoome, so keeping the server running isnt a problem. Just wanted to do some good (communist remember).

What you describe isn't communism, it's capitalism with charity.
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nsanelilmunky



Joined: 12 Nov 2012
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dracony wrote:
Well, just so you know, I have emailed all the artists of the listed comics + some additional ones and i'm getting around 60% positive responses, so you are wrong if you think that artists actively oppose it.


Around? Subjective. Even if that were the real number, that still leaves 40% who are against it, plus just about everyone on this board.

If you still can't really grasp why this is wrong/illegal, try thinking about it in other forms. Say music or writing. Remember the whole firestorm with file-sharing sites like Napster? Those models, while giving access to many people, stripped the creators of their rights and revenue. The same is currently going on against authors and google as google as illegally been scanning works and posting those works on their site for free. This is again ignoring the writer/artist's rights and taking away their revenue. Comic art is protected under the same same laws as music and literature/writing. If you can't do it with those mediums of expression, you can't do it with this one. You're not supposed to eat the food before you buy it in a grocery store, you're not supposed to post/use other people's music/writing/art without their permission. These rights are even protected in other countries also.

With your site, I for one would never use it. You've started out with a site for theft and then started tweeking it to try and get yourself out of trouble. This makes me think that it wouldn't be out of your character to try and say that you have a right to re/distribute or use an artist's work because they have it on your server.

And as Casual Notice said, what you're doing isn't communism. You should really stop trying to play that as an excuse for your actions. Regardless of your political standing, you're still governed/affected by the law.
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DoctorStevehatten



Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Hey Reply with quote

Promote my comic, Dracony!

(but give me credit, yo!)
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vulpeslibertas
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Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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Location: Here and there...mostly there. Sometimes kinda in between.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nsanelilmunky wrote:
And as Casual Notice said, what you're doing isn't communism. You should really stop trying to play that as an excuse for your actions. Regardless of your political standing, you're still governed/affected by the law.
Even if it was communism, that wouldn't justify it. I don't believe in Wicca, but that doesn't justify me practicing witch burnings every second Wednesday. Not without the burnee's permission, anyway.

It doesn't matter how you feel about it, what matter is how the person who owns the rights to it feels about it.

As I said above, if you want authors to use your site, you need to provide a benefit to them, and allow them to freely choose. What are you giving to them that justifies them giving to you? I know you have another thread out there asking this question, and that's a good start. But don't take the artwork out of the author's control until they give you permission.
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Casual Notice
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silly fox...you don't burn witches, you hang them. You burn heretics...
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vulpeslibertas
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot my manual.
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dracony



Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys simply can't get of all the 'theft' thing. If I get authors permission, or the comic is Crateive Commons licensed it isn't a theft. There is only like maybe 4 comics on the site, that I haven't received the reply for yet, that's all. I am not forcing anyone on the site.
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vulpeslibertas
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those four comic authors aren't required to give you a response. If you walk up to someone on the street, ask for a dollar, and the person brushes you off, that isn't implicit permission to go rummaging through their pocketbook.

Where you have permission and licensing, then what you're doing is ok. Where you don't, it isn't. Historically, it seems that you've been in the wrong. That you're trying to make up for lost ground now is admirable, but only a marginal appeasement to the writers. (And, yes, you are forcing those 4 authors on your site, until you get positive affirmation).

You also have to understand the mentality of the people on the forum here. We aren't webcomic readers, we are predominately webcomic writers. You are thinking in terms of the readers, and we are thinking in terms of the writers. What else would we see it as, other than theft? It is our work, you're stripping it out of our control, and using it for your own purposes. You can name all the benefits to readers that you want, but it doesn't benefit us because we don't read our own comics.
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