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Asking readers not to block your ads
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munkymu
Postpostpostpostpost!


Joined: 30 Nov 1999
Posts: 1735
Location: Canadia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rocketpig wrote:

True, maybe "very little" is understating it a bit. What I'm really driving at is SuitCase's point that the readers are somehow blessing us with their presence.


Technically they are. Without readers you're just some guy slaving away to no purpose. If you wanted that you could chuck your comic pages in the closet as you finished them, spend nothing and get nothing in return.

Not that there's any reason to deify them or bend over backwards to satisfy their every request, but you need them more than they need you and in larger numbers.
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smbhax.com
No! Don't post it there!


Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 2923
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darc wrote:
Really? Neat. Yeah, it's php so the issue number, page number, and number of pages ahead will automatically update when the Supporters side updates.

(Holy moly that is slick! :o)
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Darc



Joined: 30 Nov 1999
Posts: 474
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smbhax.com wrote:
Darc wrote:
Really? Neat. Yeah, it's php so the issue number, page number, and number of pages ahead will automatically update when the Supporters side updates.

(Holy moly that is slick! Surprised)


Yeah, Matt comes up with some interesting ideas. The CMS the site runs on - Clickthulu - was built by him. We couldn't find one that could handle the Supporters area well enough, so he decided to see what he could come up with. That, and he'd registered the Clickthulu domain a while back because he thought it sounded funny and needed to do something with it. Laughing
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bustertheclown



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

munkymu wrote:
rocketpig wrote:

True, maybe "very little" is understating it a bit. What I'm really driving at is SuitCase's point that the readers are somehow blessing us with their presence.


Technically they are. Without readers you're just some guy slaving away to no purpose. If you wanted that you could chuck your comic pages in the closet as you finished them, spend nothing and get nothing in return.

Not that there's any reason to deify them or bend over backwards to satisfy their every request, but you need them more than they need you and in larger numbers.


This, right here.

Being disdainful of people who you don't see as properly reciprocating you for work you had essentially done on spec in the first place is just plain cynical and self-entitling.

Yes, it is a catch-22, but webcomickers have only themselves to blame by coming up with a system that puts them in such a position, and they certainly shouldn't be bitter when their audience sees fit to take the advantage that they have been freely given. The fact of the matter is that if earning an income is your primary goal, you need to figure out a way to guarantee payment before the delivery of the product. Real businesses don't run on freebies, hopes, dreams, and Google AdSense.
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Zoe Robinson
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 1863
Location: Manchester, UK

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bustertheclown wrote:
[Real businesses don't run on freebies, hopes, dreams, and Google AdSense.


Actually, they can.
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rocketpig



Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 404

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bustertheclown wrote:
Real businesses don't run on freebies, hopes, dreams, and Google AdSense.


I'm friends with a guy who makes over $150,000 a year just from his site advertising and after five years, is only now launching a paid service for a specialized niche of his site. Is his business not "real"? If it's not, that means the Aston Martin he just bought is imaginary so I can starting making fun of him for it.
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Last edited by rocketpig on Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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rocketpig



Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 404

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

munkymu wrote:
rocketpig wrote:

True, maybe "very little" is understating it a bit. What I'm really driving at is SuitCase's point that the readers are somehow blessing us with their presence.


Technically they are. Without readers you're just some guy slaving away to no purpose. If you wanted that you could chuck your comic pages in the closet as you finished them, spend nothing and get nothing in return.

Not that there's any reason to deify them or bend over backwards to satisfy their every request, but you need them more than they need you and in larger numbers.


That's why I said I appreciate them stopping by but I'm not going to worship them. If they don't care enough to give me anything in return for my work, I'm not going to jump through hoops to make them happy.

It's not disdain, it's apathy. I'll spend my efforts on a real fanbase that interacts with me and cares about my site and comic, not pleasing a hypothetical user that may or may not get upset because I ask them to stop blocking adverts.
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thelanyard



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 156
Location: St. Louis, Mo

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoe Robinson wrote:
bustertheclown wrote:
[Real businesses don't run on freebies, hopes, dreams, and Google AdSense.


Actually, they can.


Those are nice exceptions, but they run on different business models than a webcomic would and a few do rely fairly heavily on some sort of ad serving mechanism which doesn't exactly make them exceptions at all.
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Zoe Robinson
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 1863
Location: Manchester, UK

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thelanyard wrote:
Those are nice exceptions, but they run on different business models than a webcomic would and a few do rely fairly heavily on some sort of ad serving mechanism which doesn't exactly make them exceptions at all.


You're clutching at straws there. Everything is exceptions right now. This is a wholly new business model that is still developing.

Moreover, some of us are already using "freebies, hopes, dreams, and Google AdSense" to pay our bills. I have been for the last 18 months and I have five friends who have been doing this for a lot longer.

The evidence for success is there if you look for it.
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smbhax.com
No! Don't post it there!


Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 2923
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised this is even an argument. There's this, for instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_self-sufficient_webcomics
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Casual Notice
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Joined: 18 Mar 2005
Posts: 2959
Location: Oh my God, It's full of stars!

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last three pages have been pretty silly. It was clear pretty early on that there was unlikely to be any consensus or even accommodation made, and all the arguments since then have just been growling over an old bone.

Here are the facts:
  • Most ad-carriers are responsible and responsive to their readers needs and wishes, and try their best to prevent intrusive, spammy, or invasive ads from bothering people.
  • Some ad-carriers, through laziness, incompetence or sheer dickery allow a surprising number of ads that would make a discount furniture dealer cry onto their sites. These are the people by which all ad-carriers are judged. It's not nice, and it's not fair, but it's a fact of life.
  • Most webcomic readers, even those with ad-blockers, seek some means of helping to support the authors of the webcomics they read. Not long ago, a friend of mine had an entire computer donated to him by a reader.
  • Some readers treat authors as if they were slave monkeys who should fall down in adoration for the favor of the reader's presence. They use ad-blaockers, but never seek any means of helping the author continue doing what their doing (but they're often the first to complain of a late update).
  • Asking people to turn off their ad-blockers isn't rude...exactly. It's a little whiney and, to some, it's tantamount to asking them to take off their shirt on a crowded city square.
  • Of over 10.000 webcomics, approximately 50 are self-sufficient. Of those, maybe 10 are successful enough that their author isn't sweating the rent each month.
  • the Cheese stands alone.


There: Argument over. Do what you want. Rationalize it in whatever way make you the most comfortable. Quit bitching.
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lexia



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

correct me if I am wrong, but ad rev only works if people visit the ad's site, so if they have ad blockers more chances then not they won't visit the site anyway.. Or am I talking about a different ad...

For me I do not even go back to sites that have the flash pop ups.. even if the comic good only so much you can take.
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Max Vaehling



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 392
Location: Bremen, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lexianee wrote:
correct me if I am wrong, but ad rev only works if people visit the ad's site, so if they have ad blockers more chances then not they won't visit the site anyway.. Or am I talking about a different ad...


There are ads that pay for clicks, and if people don't see them, they don't click. Right.

There are other ads that pay by a certain amount of views, no matter if people click or not. But, again, no see, no pay.

Then there's Project Wonderful, which probably most of the people here use, at least among others. PW pays based on bids. People bid based on what they think advertising on your site is worth, and the page views PW reports are definitely a factor. But there isn't any direct link between the amount of eyeballs you collect and the amount of money you get.
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Last edited by Max Vaehling on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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smbhax.com
No! Don't post it there!


Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 2923
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is if a PW bidder is running a campaign that has a min page view number as its criteria for bid placement. ;)

Also Casual Notice: nice summary, and I like the classic touch of bitching at people (on the Internet) to quit bitching. :D
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