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Marbles
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Traitorfish
Postpostpostpostpost!


Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VGML wrote:
The whole cannibalism issue is just nitpicking in my humble opinion.

I agree, the cannibalism thing isn't a big deal- the comic never once gave me the impression that the suggestions of cannibalism were due to the comic's setting in Africa, but just because the kids were really, really hungry.

Marbles is sort of weird. On the surface, it's fairly insensitive and offensive, but, once you read enough of it, you become aware that the whole situation is such an over-the-top farce that it's no longer offensive. As far as I can see, it's not making fun of starving Africans so much as it's making fun of people's perceptions of starving Africans. It's not so much a comic about Africa as a comic about what the West thinks Africa is like.
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Thinking Ape



Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Traitorfish wrote:
As far as I can see, it's not making fun of starving Africans so much as it's making fun of people's perceptions of starving Africans. It's not so much a comic about Africa as a comic about what the West thinks Africa is like.


Bingo, we have a winner.

I am both appalled and facinated by this strip, finding it horrible and wonderful at the same time. In a true artistic way, it's so refreshing to still be able to be offended. People's perception of this comic are gonna fall on one side of a fence or the other: either it's offensive hateful rascist crap or it's a brutally enlightened savaging of European and Western norms, societal shortcomings and weaknesses. Colonialism at it's best/worst.

Maybe I'm an idiot or full of sh*t, but I think these 2 actually have something important to say and most of us aren't ready or equipped to hear it. This strip scares me a bit, and perhaps that's a good thing. Deep down I wish I had the sack to make something half as provocative.
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jdalton
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Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 2182
Location: 1 hr east of Vancouver (currently)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VGML wrote:
All characters are excaggerated caricatures, and are not to be taken too seriously.

Exaggerated caricatures of what, though?
Quote:
The whole cannibalism issue is just nitpicking in my humble opinion. I know I can't prove it, and I know you won't take my word for it, but the few cannibalism jokes weren't made with any racist or elitist thought behind them.

I have read enough of your comic and enough of your posts outside your comic that in fact I do believe you. I don't think you're a racist. If you were, this comic would be different. But a joke is funny because of the context it is in- and some contexts make for an unfunny joke. It's your job as humourist to know these in advance.
Quote:
I know cannibalism is a touchy subject in this case, but I thought people would be smart enough to realize we don't actually assume African people are cannibals.

But this is the problem- people aren't that smart! You might as well go to Iran and tell jokes about the holocaust being imaginary. No one there will get your irony either.
Traitorfish wrote:
It's not so much a comic about Africa as a comic about what the West thinks Africa is like.

In order to be effective such a scheme would need to compare the views of the West with reality in a humourous way. By reading this comic I learn nothing about the reality in Africa, only about "what the West thinks of Africa." But I already know what the West thinks of Africa.

Well, whatever. I've said my bit so I'll leave you alone now.
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NobleSavage



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read through the archive, hilarious stuff! I'll be watching you...
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GingerDead



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 230
Location: behind you

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the joke isn't the west's perception of africa at all. it's the west period.

it pokes fun of shows like survivor where a bunch of well fed healthy westerners get to 'rough it' without a roof over their heads and get to bellyache how much they miss mcdonalds. it's a slap in the west's face. a reality check. there are real people with much worse conditions who are really trying to survive. there is no pot of gold waiting for them if they make it, no endorsement deals, no fame. they just get to survive.

the character chikita is pretty happy she's so damn skinny. it's not a joke on starving children it's another reality check. girls are starving themselves to live up to the thin ideal the media feeds them. pun intended. her character is saying hey look at your freaking ideals. heroine chic was first, will ethiopian chic be next?! extreme? not really when so many die from anorexia each year.

it's drawing attention to people who get on their high horses and say money and food isn't what these people need, it's education. sure education is needed but you don't need maslow's hierarchy of needs chart to realize that food is more essential to staying alive and that need must be met.

it's telling us about government officials in africa who deny there is a hunger problem.

it's making fun of indifference. we all say we care but what do we do? anything? nothing? blog about it?

it screams at our fat rich self serving governement's who drop, not food, but weapons on these countries which end up in the hands of rebel forces many of which use children to fight.

it pokes fun at drug abuse in the west, musicians, celebrities whose "tough lives" and insane amounts of money lead to drug abuse where if people in poor countries had a tiny fraction of that kind of money their drugs of choice would be things we take for granted like antibiotics.

*screams and pulls hair out*

that's it. i'm done. i'm not wasting time arguing with those that dont get it. the purpose of this post is to let marc and govert know some of us actually grasp what you are doing and applaud you for it.
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VGML



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Rotterdam, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calan, you're the best fan a cartoonist could have.
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toydivision



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 231

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want her at my trial!
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GingerDead



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 230
Location: behind you

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

toydivision wrote:
I want her at my trial!


oh mimo, i don't think anyone can convince a jury of your innocence. we'll have to just do it the old fashioned way (bribery) or the Toy Division way (torture them into submission.) Wink
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Debt On



Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Debt On wrote:
VGML wrote:

Speaking of personal, Morris, could you give up this little vendetta you have with me just because I voted no on your Transplant application? It's getting annoying.


Oh, please. Plenty of people voted against me in that thread and I've got nothing against them. My opinions of Marbles are valid and based on nothing else but my reading of the comic. The fact that I think you're a dick is besides the point.


Ugh. Sorry, I just have to come back to this because you're so incredibly out of line. I'm going to tell you exactly why I've got this "vendetta" against you.

I didn't know who the hell you were when I started that application thread, but I realized quickly you were needlessly condescending. To everyone. I read through the other threads and watched you routinely tear into 16 year olds and call their comics "worthless" "sucks balls" whatever insulting thing you could come up with that day. Way to encourage the medium, there, tough guy. Is it just an ego stroke you crave?

When I was there, you not only insulted me similarly, you started a vulgar flame war with a 13-year-old kid in a thread about my comic where I was getting incredibly useful feedback and just trashed the place. I wish I could link to this shit, cuz it was priceless, but all the flaming has been moderated out now.

Then I discovered Marbles and I believe that regardless of my dislike of you I would read the same thing into it that I've been posting about. Others seem to agree, and you know what? I actually liked Ritalin Boy and Jake. I think you should have stuck with that.

In the thread I made on Transplant, I actually apologized to you when I got too snarky.

But then I noticed that you stopped by my post-reboot TWCL thread to say something nasty, so I returned the favor.

In my criticisms you have accused me of racism, and now you accuse me of some kind of petty vendetta. For someone who shells out such hard criticisms you sure take it terribly, and that is my point. I would not have been so harsh if you didn't seem to feel comfortable being even worse.

I stand by my criticisms of Marbles despite the very thought provoking replies of Gingerdead, Tratorfish and Thinking Ape. In short, I just don't think you're actually taking this as seriously as all that, I think this shit just makes you giggle.

So for the record, you made it personal.
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VGML



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Rotterdam, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't you think it's a little ironic how you waste a huge post explaining why you think I'm a dick and then suggesting I'm the one who made it personal?

Anyway, nobody cares why you don't like me, so just give it a rest. This is a thread about Marbles.
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19013



Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 213
Location: 19013

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VGML wrote:
Don't you think it's a little ironic how you waste a huge post explaining why you think I'm a dick and then suggesting I'm the one who made it personal?

Anyway, nobody cares why you don't like me, so just give it a rest. This is a thread about Marbles.


bla bla bla
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GingerDead



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 230
Location: behind you

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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VGML



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Rotterdam, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shiny.
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