TWCL

[-3-]

You might not like the term applicants, but that is the technically correct business term, and if you're wanting to deal in the business world, better relax a bit or you'll never be able to deal with the real hassles. Point out that they might get better result using a more "artist friendly" approach if you like, but don't waste your energy getting upset about that kind of thing.

And that post is considered to be a good form thing to do, letting artists know that someone has been found and making sure that potentially interested parties don't wind up wasting their time for a job that no longer is available.

If you harass business people for following good procedures, you're only going to drive opportunities for paying work away. Somehow, not sounding like the best plan.

[mooncity]

Yeah. Right.
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Mooncity
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow since 1976!


The comic strip that never was.

[Zoe Robinson]

-3- wrote:

You might not like the term applicants, but that is the technically correct business term

Wrong. You came to a group of professionals and semi-professionals and you asked for their help. We are not applicants in this relationship, we are contractors.

-3- wrote:

if you're wanting to deal in the business world, better relax a bit or you'll never be able to deal with the real hassles.

Wrong. If you want to get anywhere in the business world, you had better not act like a complete prick. Not only will people not work for you but when you inevitably fail, everyone will laugh. I've seen this many times before.

-3- wrote:

Point out that they might get better result using a more "artist friendly" approach if you like, but don't waste your energy getting upset about that kind of thing.

Totally the wrong attitude. You need us, we don't need you. There are ten of you to every one of us, as can be demonstrated by a quick look through this forum. Don't piss off the people you need.

-3- wrote:

If you harass business people for following good procedures, you're only going to drive opportunities for paying work away. Somehow, not sounding like the best plan.

Most of the people on this forum are in business of some sort. For my part, I've been in business since I was fourteen. Don't think you can lecture us about how to do business. Moreover, do not seek to lecture us when you are so thoroughly wrong.
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[Lord Pandar]

Yo, you guys are totally right. Artists need more respect. Lots more. In fact, I think I'm going write an informative pamphlet about this.

I'll be needing some applicants for artists. Zoe, Mooncity, lookin at you guys.

Also it's pro bono.
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S*P*Q*R

[Casual Notice]

Yeah, see, I'm all about jumping all over writers that make the profession look bad by treating artists like slave monkeys, but this guy played it out correctly.

He offered paying work, didn't bitch about the prices quoted, then politely made a post to tell people that the position had been filled.

No one was "helping" him. Everyone who applied (yes, applied) was competing for a paid position for a work-for-hire artist, as he stated from the beginning.

Don't get your shorts in a bunch.
_________________
What I lack in sincerity, I make up for in sarcasm.
S*P*Q*R

[mooncity]

Okay, so here's what he asked for:

SandgroperIndustries wrote:

Hi All, Just a quick query for the artists amoungst us. I have some paid work for a 16 page children's book that has become available and I was hoping someone might be interested in providing a quote. I have received invaluable help on my graphic novel project from members here, so I thought I would ask if there was anyone who was looking for this kind of work. I know the etiquette is to attach the writing to my post, but it's a lullaby I wrote for my daughter so I thought I would save myself the embarrassment of posting something mushy if artists posting here were not interested in this kind of project I will however post the writing in full, and an email to send a quotation to if there is any interest. Alternatively if there is a more appropriate forum I should be posting on I welcome any suggestions. Thank you for your time. Shane

So, basically, he comes off to me as someone who needs a favor. He's willing to pay for the work, sure, but he's basically coming hat in hand asking for help, he's a little embarrassed by the story, etc., blah, blah, blah. He's an average joe who needs a hand. He doesn't know much about rates and things, hasn't figured out how to set up PayPal yet, so he needs quotes and advice and all that, gosh, golly, gee whiz. That's how he presented himself.

Then he posts some jackass corporatey thing about his "panel" deciding on "applicants" and "good luck in the future" and all that kind of fake phoney-baloney rejection letter crap, as if he werea professional with a real company and everything. I mean, seriously, WTF?!

Strikes me as a bit of a con. Not that he'll con the guy who does the work out of the cash (who knows?), but it's a con so far as how he comes off, and bordering on an outright lie about the work, who it's for, and where it came from. If he's running a real company, fine, why not say so right off? Why the fake approach?

And if the dude had a real company, why would he come to a webcomic forum to find an illustrator anyway? Surely he could go through regular channels to find a reliable artist much more quickly. He might even have better luck on deviantart for that matter. But maybe if he went to find professional illustrators the regular way, he might have to pay a given rate. So instead he thinks he'll be able to find a less experienced/more gullible artist hanging out on a forum who'd work for cheap.

And, -3-, you're kind of full of it. When I see phoniness and horseshit shell games like this, it's anything BUT professional. Professionals don't misrepresent themselves or the assignment. This guy kind of did. At the very least, I don't think he was as honest as he could've been, either about the work or the company he supposedly works for/runs/owns/who knows what. That should be a red flag for anyone considering working for this guy. Ask yourself. If he's willing to be less than forthcoming about about certain details, what other things is he keeping you in the dark about?

So again, yeah, ""
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Mooncity
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow since 1976!


The comic strip that never was.

[jaygee]

mooncity -

if my trusted friend Mr G is not mistaken, the OP works for/runs an Australian startup company for carpentry tools etc. In his spare time he seems to be the writing part of a team of two producing a comic called AEvol.
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[Casual Notice]

Really Moon? That's your beef? "He tried to sound like he was something big and not just a guy looking to buy some artwork for his self-published children's book."

He didn't use the old "exposure" canard. He offered to pay for each picture on delivery (so if he didn't pay for the first one, the artist could back out without wasting the time and effort on twelve fully-developed pieces). He thanked everyone involved for their interest and notified anyone whomight be interested when the contract was closed.

But he didn't say, "I'm just a guy who may or may not be a tool salesman. I worte a lullabye for my daughter and I think it'd be pretty sweet to publish it in an illustrated book. Can someone do the art? I'll pay." And that makes you think he's the worst human being since the late Ken Lay?
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What I lack in sincerity, I make up for in sarcasm.
S*P*Q*R

[mooncity]

No, not the worst person ever. Just not as honest as he could be. If he does run some kind of publishing company, he should've up and said so. If he doesn't, he shouldn't put on an act like he does. At the very, very least, it comes off as assinine.

So yeah,
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Mooncity
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow since 1976!


The comic strip that never was.

[Chilari]

Gentlemen, does it really matter? There's really no point in arguing over this. It's not important, it's over. So drop it and please lets all be friends.
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"S*P*Q*R"

[-3-]

Zoe Robinson wrote:

Wrong. You came to a group of professionals and semi-professionals and you asked for their help. We are not applicants in this relationship, we are contractors. ... Wrong. If you want to get anywhere in the business world, you had better not act like a complete prick. Not only will people not work for you but when you inevitably fail, everyone will laugh. I've seen this many times before. ... Totally the wrong attitude. You need us, we don't need you. There are ten of you to every one of us, as can be demonstrated by a quick look through this forum. Don't piss off the people you need. ... Most of the people on this forum are in business of some sort. For my part, I've been in business since I was fourteen. Don't think you can lecture us about how to do business. Moreover, do not seek to lecture us when you are so thoroughly wrong.

Thanks for the comedy break. But, speaking of wrong - i'm not someone seeking artists. I've been a working (internationally published) artist for most of the last 3 decades.
I was merely pointing out to fellow artists how counterproductive getting worked up over the little things can be.

But since you seem to enjoy it so much - Carry On!

[Zoe Robinson]

This conversation ended last month. Don't try dragging it up again.
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[Casual Notice]

Zombie argument will eat your brains!!!!GRAAAAHHHHH!!!!Intarweb BRAAAAAAAIIINNNNNNNSSSSS!!!!!!1111!!!!!one!!!!
_________________
What I lack in sincerity, I make up for in sarcasm.
S*P*Q*R

[-3-]

Zoe Robinson wrote:

This conversation ended last month. Don't try dragging it up again.

Apologies if i was breaching etiquette. I had been gone for a few weeks and it was the first time back to the board since replies were posted. I'll try to be more timely in my responses.

[SandgroperIndustries]

Hi All,

Really didn't mean to create a storm here. To those that looked us up you are exactly right. Normally we deal in creating new products of the physical kind. Tools, pet toys, gadgets, and whatever new ideas people ask us to build for them. In the last twelve months I have been running two personal writing projects through the business. Those being the childrens book and the graphic novel. I have found several people from this site that are helping me on both. I would like to be able to take on projects in this area for other people and this was an attempt at building a network to do that.

The reason that I tried using this site is because it gives me a better selection of talent and a chance for a better network. Local talent is limited as you might understand and by using a forum like this you get a much wider range. I think this is the way businesses should go if they want to really see what talent is out there and there is a lot of it on the net.

I humbly apologise if anyone felt I was not upfront and I didn't do it the right way but being new to this side of the creative world you will have to forgive my ignorance on how its done. Using normal contractor etiquette of bidding for the job and selction process seems to not have suited the art world too well. Looks to have pissed more people off than anything. Please understand that was'nt the intension. It is the just the way we do things for other products.

Just for the record. We are not a publishing company. There is just a publisher working with us but we are not a part of that company.
The business can be found at www.sandgroperindustries.com.au
Those that have done work for us have been paid, and they are welcome to hammer us here if they haven't been looked after well.

I hope this puts this one to bed guys. Not trying to piss anyone off. Just offering some paid work in the best way we knew how. All comments, good and bad, were taken seriously as we would like to offer more work in the future if it comes our way. If we can look at this as lesson learned and move on that would be greatly appreciated.


Cheers

Shane