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Feedback Etiquette
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joeyjoejoe



Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:45 pm    Post subject: Feedback Etiquette Reply with quote

I am posting this anonymously because I don't want it to alter any future feedback I may ask for. I have been a member of this forum for several years and have noticed an increasingly snarky and negative tone among the feedback threads. Frankly I'm tired of it. I don't think we should stroke ego's and give false praise, but please remember that across the vast tubes of the internet there is a human being with...wait for it...feelings reading your criticism.

This is not my forum, so I don't make the rules, but please allow me to humbly submit my suggestions for webcomic criticism:


For the folks giving feedback:

- Understand that the purpose of giving feedback is to encourage and challenge. Funnel your talent for sarcasm and snarkiness into your comic, not your criticism.

- If a comic is beyond help, I mean really awful, just don't say anything. Silence is enough for them to get the hint and they will likely give up in a few weeks anyway.

- If a comic is in a genre you despise, i.e. video games, furries, manga, D&D, don't bother reviewing it. It's impossible to give objective feedback if your subconscious is trying to rid the world of Penny Arcade clones.

- If a comic has potential, point out the good and give lots of suggestions on the bad.

- If everyone is saying similar feed back, trust that they get the point. The only person who enjoys a dog pile is the last one on.

- If someone ignores your suggestions, ignore them. Don't get pissy and offended that they didn't accept the feedback. It sucks to have wasted your time in the first place, so don't waste even more.



For the folks seeking feedback:


- Understand that the purpose of requesting feedback is not just to spam your comic and get hits, but to get honest answers and ways to improve. If you don't want to hear it, don't post it.

- If someone gives you suggestions, don't get combative and make excuses. Listen to what they have to say, and thank them, even if you disagree.

- Accept the fact that no matter how many hits you get, how many awards you win, and how awesome your comic becomes, there will STILL be people who hate it. XKCD has an entire website about how it supposedly sucks. Don't get butthurt if a handful of people you've never met don't think you are the 2nd coming of Bill Watterson. Grow a thicker skin.


And for all of us:
- You are nowhere near as talented as you think you are. Remember this when giving AND receiving feedback.


So there it is. Feel free to agree or disagree. Just had to say my piece.
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Luke



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 753
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I agree with this. Not sure why you really felt the need to post anonymously. Did you really think that people would react so negatively to this?

I don't think that any regular posters would be petty enough to use this against you when you're seeking further critique.
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Chilari
Spambot Extraordinaire


Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 2447
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to pin this thread, but apparently only admins can. Unless it's not obvious on the moderator panel.

Good thread, though, and some good points, inlcuding one or two I feel I should remember in future. Thank you.
I love being a mod and being able to check IPs and who else has posted from the same IP... heh heh heh. But Luke's right, you didn't need to hide it.
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Dutch
Postpostpostpostpost!


Joined: 30 Nov 1999
Posts: 1673
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. I have to agree with it all too. There are a lot of chips on shoulders in the vast webcomic world (and not all of them from the up and comers, let's be honest here! Smile ) but it's nice to have some of it filtered out in places like this.

Not sure the post needed to be anonymous, but I can appreciate why it was decided to be. Good stuff.
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wendyw
The Bomb-diggity


Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 4107
Location: North-East England

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knowing who you are because of my crazy mod powers* I can honestly say I don't think you needed to do this anonymously. You make some good points and I can't see anyone here throwing a wobbly over this.


* What? Me teasing people by letting them know that I know who it is without telling? Would I?

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Chilari
Spambot Extraordinaire


Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 2447
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I totally found the sticky thing. Thanks for the tip, Wendy. Crazy mod powers are good.
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Luke



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 753
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we all know who it is anyway.
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wendyw
The Bomb-diggity


Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 4107
Location: North-East England

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha.




No.
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uncaringmachine



Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 617

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree for the most part. I don't think, however, that you shouldn't comment if the comic is really bad. Good or bad, they most likely want to know, or they wouldn't have posted. I remember when I did my first comic, Gothy, and I got a few good, and a few really bad. I took it with a grain of salt and moved on. Okay, maybe with a shovel full of salt, but hey, I asked for it!
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mooncity
is awesome cool.


Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1339
Location: Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just hafta say, I think it's rather rediculous to post this anonymously.
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Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow since 1976!


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cmcl



Joined: 21 Aug 2010
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uncaringmachine wrote:
I don't think, however, that you shouldn't comment if the comic is really bad. Good or bad, they most likely want to know, or they wouldn't have posted.
I agree with this. I really hate it when people give me the "say nothing and hope they take the hint" treatment, in real life or in seeking critique online. Even if a comic is really so bad that it's beyond all salvation, I think it's possible to provide courteous feedback.
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xfoo



Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if someone ignores your suggestion, it doesnt mean your time was wasted. there's 2 reasons, one of them being for all you know a suggestion helped indirectly, but also, and i think this is the main reason there's anyone in here, is criticizing a comic exercises your brain. it can help you to hone your own talents. it can also be used as a secret self critique - for example, if you find yourself telling people to write snappier dialogue more than a couple times, might be a hint that you should work on that too
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Borf Masterson



Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:56 am    Post subject: Stickling Reply with quote

It also continues to be ridiculous that nobody can spell ridiculous. But I suppose being a stickler for spelling is extremely out of style. Ignore me.
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[url=http://www.borfy.com/Kingfisher/]

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Dr.Vile



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats ok i'm not particulary phased by negative feedback or anything!
I don't know how folks on here may respond to my comic when i do post it here but i think people may like it.My comic's have a dark tone to it and a lot of gore so idk if people here are used to that!
I don't sugar coat anything and hope no one else does either,I just think some things are better left un-said cause it can open a can of worms.
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tbowl
Yarrrrr!


Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 1318

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can think of some additions, but I think the most important one maybe is that try to remember which things the person can actually feasibly or reasonably do something about.

I remember people used to say, "fix the eyes" or "make it look more like a hammer." I plugged away on it and eventually got it to something that was comfortable for everyone.

I know my website went through like 10 iterations... eventually I got it there.

But I know something I got a lot of guff on is my character's helmet / visor. Like, it's always going to be that way. I don't know how to help people understand what it is. All of my paladins have different helmets/visors.. it's how their suits of armor go...

So I'd say if you notice 150+ pages of something exactly the same that seems to be a consistent style and not a mistake... maybe leave those things alone, for everyone's sake.

But yeah if my hammer looks like a square with a stick in it, it is something I need to work on. I know he can't possibly be holding anything else, but that doesn't mean I can't make it cool! You know, middle ground, meet in the middle, find a happy medium.

I can't remember my other consistent criticisms but I know it was helmet/visor, hammer, eyes, website, speech bubble placement, archive...

Try to post feedback on what people would actually want to do something about. Stuff that would actually benefit them. Not stuff that isn't your taste art-wise.. I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

I actually worked the hammer fixing into the story line, and it created two-half story arcs that would have otherwise never existed. Speech bubble placement is a work in progress forever. Website / Archive was a matter of me finding the right web developer. My human eyes were dreadfully shameful. They look pretty good now though.

You know.. you learn.

Hope this helps someone some how.
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