TWCL

[mirz]

Spike's list is good, but it's subjective. It's what she personally finds irksome. Based on her list, my comic would be one of the scourges of the universe. But, I have fans who like/love my comic *because* of some of the elements she noted.

That's the way it should be, though. Different styles, different tastes. I think if you're trying to avoid things that might turn off a reader, it's good to consider these things, but don't let them limit you. I do feel bad when someone comes on and sees this kind of list and gets discouraged, thinking their work is considered crap, when that is not necessarily the case. With the exception of a few items, many of Spike's points can be pulled off, if done well. Cliches and tropes have their place.

I think my biggest pet peeve is when a creator doesn't care. When they are doing it just to do it. When it is a chore to them, and it shows. It can be 20 comics into a strip, or 5 years into it. If there is not passion about it (and I'm not talking about a short dry spell where you simply feel uninspired), then they should gracefully end it.
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[GlenGoldentree]

If any of these lists of dislikes meant a thing, then most of the popular comics on the net would be unpopular. I think looking at the opinions of what other comic artists would prefer to read is foolish if you are trying to establish a strong mainstream readership. If you're trying to raise yourself to a higher level of art, whatever that means, then it's awesome! AWESOME! But useless.
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Pagan Comic - The Many Moons of Astra

[Jardel]

I think the most annoying cliche I see in comics is what I call Cassius Clay Syndrome. That is the main characters resolve problems by simply showing off their skills and announcing that they are the greatest.

"I won that duel 'cause I'm the greatest swordsman in the world."
"I can break that spell because I am the greatest wizard alive."
"I got that contract because I am the greatest artist born."

No explanation about what makes them great, no exploration into the hows, whys and have nots. Just there to re-enforce in your head "This person is awesome."

The comics that do this tend to do it at least one per story arc, sometimes wasting half a story just to remind you about it.

[mirz]

CarlDalton wrote:

But really, I have to agree with 98% of the things mentioned so far. I don't recall seeing "Constant use of profanity as the sole punchline" up there, though. I can't stand how some people think that just because they have a cartoon they can have their characters constantly swearing, and it will create a sure-fire hilarious contrast between the medium and the context. It's ok to a point, but you cannot base your entire comic around it.

I wholeheartedly agree. I think profanity can have it's place, but when it is overused, it becomes tedious and boring.
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[mooncity]

Excellent list. I myself am guilty of hair/clothes change = new character.

What can I say? I suck.
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Mooncity
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow since 1976!


The comic strip that never was.

[EvilCouch]

anezka wrote:

Any story at all that starts with an epic battle... whether it's a comic or a novel or a film, is always a bad sign.

In medias res is a literary technique that's been successfully used for thousands of years. You can bag on it if you want, but great works of fiction utilitizing it will continue to be made long after we're all dust.
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[vulpeslibertas]

Generic elements don't make for bad comics. Bad story-telling does. I'm sure there are lot's of lousy stories that begin with epic battles, for instance. What makes them bad isn't that they use a generic plot element. The problem is that the author said, "Hey, epic battles are cool. I'm going to have a scene with an epic battle, then paste a story onto the back end of it."

Selecting your starting scene is a technique, like using stage props. Special effects can enhance any play, but your going to make a flop if you start by planning out your props instead of planning out your story.

In drama class once, our group had an assignment to act out the Wizard of Oz (Or something like that). A kid in our group picked up some random shiney sword prop and was going on and on about how we should find a way to include it in the skit. I'm sure this guy would have written an epic battle scene into the Wizard of OZ to justify the inclusion of that one prop. I think a lot of webcomikers are like that.

I've come to despise comics that begin with a 1st person voice-over by a mysterious protagonist of mysterious mysteriousness. Ironically, many of those kinds of comics begin with the words "If I'd known then what I know now, I never would have...". I'm sure many good stories have begun that way, but they're spoiled by all of the bad ones. When novices come along and want to tell an epic tale, they copy from what they've seen without any understanding.

I'd have to say that bad writing causes bad comics. The achillies heel of writing is character writing. So the worst generic element of a comic is generic characters, characters who are never developed.
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[munkymu]

Here's a helpful list of overused Fantasy cliches

And I'm not going to bag on "in medias res" -- it's a technique I fully approve of. IF you are starting with a battle, though, for God's sake resist using it to show what badasses your teenage vampire (half) protagonist and your sneering albino wizard antagonist are. Dragonball Z already covered that territory. Unless you're playing it for clever laughs, let it go.

Out of curiosity, I checked out a few random fantasy webcomics today. Three of them started with badass protagonists rescuing a random girl, two started with an infodump creation myth, three started with someone waking up (two of those were late for whatever it was they were late for) and one started with a relatively funny confrontation between a swordsman and a werewolf with a mullet. The only one I'd continue reading would be the last.

You can get entertainment out of a cliche, but you'll have a hard time playing it straight and doing a good job at it. It is a cliche exactly because everyone and their dog has used it twice, so unless you have a clever twist on it, 1). it has already been done and 2). it has almost certainly been done better.
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[James Sawatsky]

That list was awesome. I've been toying with a Fantasy story and none of my character ideas, plot devices appeared on the list! Woo hoo, I either have an original idea, or one that hasn't been done to death. Either way, I'm golden!

[Aarin]

Iron Spike wrote:

- Punchline: "Valid point/You have a point/I see your point." - Obvious cut-and-paste - Panel background(s) - Comic Sans font - Emoticons in word balloons

*shrug*

I like what I do. I do what I like.

I often find more fault in those presuming to 'elevate the medium' than the chucklehead dumbfucks doing it for the hit-or-miss lulz.

P.S. - Comic Sans is made of win, love, and the hopes of all mankind.
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Webcomic reviews

[Lord Pandar]

And anyone who hates Comic Sans, I assume it's because they'd rather all text be giant sparkly Myspacian gifs. Which is also a worthy font choice.
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S*P*Q*R

[Jardel]

Lord Pandar wrote:

And anyone who hates Comic Sans, I assume it's because they'd rather all text be giant sparkly Myspacian gifs. Which is also a worthy font choice.

Eh, most people I know of hate it because it's like the Budget Discount version of comic style fonts. It has no personality, is not particularly easy to read and is in billions of crap comics.

[munkymu]

Aarin wrote:

I like what I do. I do what I like. I often find more fault in those presuming to 'elevate the medium' than the chucklehead dumbfucks doing it for the hit-or-miss lulz.

This *is* the web. Everyone is free to do what they think is best, which is why the most famous site on the Internet is a search engine.

Gods know I love the Internet, but if bookstores and libraries worked the same way you'd have to wade through a pile of Naruto x Harry Potter yaoi and pregnant cheetah shemale pictures just to get to the entrance. While anyone trying to raise anything to the level of "high art" is pretty much full of it, I wouldn't mind raising the average level of anything on the Net to "barely competent."
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[Legion of Boom]

Quote:

- Rivalry with another webcomic/webcomic author/webcomic reviewer - Imagined rivalry with another webcomic/webcomic author/webcomic reviewer - Manufactured rivalry with another webcomic/webcomic author/webcomic reviewer for the sake of attention

Are there really examples of webcomics doing this? Holy crap that is sad. I had really pathetic cartoonists publishing on the same page as me in my college paper doing that to my comics and it would just magnify how crappy their comics were. And one of the reasons they only lasted 1-2 semesters.
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[munkymu]

Legion of Boom wrote:

Quote: - Rivalry with another webcomic/webcomic author/webcomic reviewer - Imagined rivalry with another webcomic/webcomic author/webcomic reviewer - Manufactured rivalry with another webcomic/webcomic author/webcomic reviewer for the sake of attention Are there really examples of webcomics doing this? Holy crap that is sad. I had really pathetic cartoonists publishing on the same page as me in my college paper doing that to my comics and it would just magnify how crappy their comics were. And one of the reasons they only lasted 1-2 semesters.

Well... your average web cartoonist IS the guy in the college paper, give or take a few years either way. All the cartoonists I know IRL started out at the same paper I did. I don't think any of us ever had a rivalry going... unless it was some sort of joke.
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