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Zoe Robinson
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 1867
Location: Manchester, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttallan wrote:
wendyw wrote:
Best Story comic / Comedy comic + Best Strip Comic / Full Page Comic
(The potential problem with these four is, as Luke pointed out these might not work that well with the overall Best Comic award. I personally do like the Best Story and Best Comedy awards, but I do see his point.)
Best World Building

One possibility would be to have these four winners, and then do a final Big Extravaganza round where one of these gets picked for Best Comic of the Year. With only four to choose from you could throw the vote open to the public, or the TWCL membership, or whatever you like.


This I like. I know popular votes are, ironically, unpopular but if there are only four to choose from and they're all determined by a jury prior to the vote opening, I think this limits the problem of popularity causing a massive flooding of votes. It also means "Best Comic" will actually be what peope in general see as the best, not some arbitrary group.
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wendyw
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Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Location: North-East England

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttallan wrote:
wendyw wrote:
Best Story comic / Comedy comic + Best Strip Comic / Full Page Comic
(The potential problem with these four is, as Luke pointed out these might not work that well with the overall Best Comic award. I personally do like the Best Story and Best Comedy awards, but I do see his point.)
Best World Building

One possibility would be to have these four winners, and then do a final Big Extravaganza round where one of these gets picked for Best Comic of the Year. With only four to choose from you could throw the vote open to the public, or the TWCL membership, or whatever you like.


That's not a bad idea. Very Happy

Zoe Robinson wrote:
mooncity wrote:
Zoe Robinson wrote:
We should also consider a "Best comic in a non-English language" category as well, since the English-language comics always dominate awards.


How could we read them?


Umm... some of us can?


The big problem I can see with this category is trying to put together a panel of judges who could cover it and what if the nominations turn out to be two French comics, one German, one Japanese, two Dutch and one Spanish? To make it fair we'd need to find a panel of judges who could all speak French, German, Japanese, Dutch and Spanish, which, although possible I'm sure, would be more work than the rest of the awards put together.
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Zoe Robinson
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 1867
Location: Manchester, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wendyw wrote:
The big problem I can see with this category is trying to put together a panel of judges who could cover it and what if the nominations turn out to be two French comics, one German, one Japanese, two Dutch and one Spanish? To make it fair we'd need to find a panel of judges who could all speak French, German, Japanese, Dutch and Spanish, which, although possible I'm sure, would be more work than the rest of the awards put together.


Oh I agree it's going to be a problematic category but I'd argue that it's not as problematic as deciding whether 'Best Comic' should be one category or many. It's more of an administrative issue than a practical one, and I'm happy to put together a plan of how it would work if people are willing to consider the category.
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wendyw
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Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think you can organise it then I'm not going to rule it out.
Again, we'll see what other people have to say, but if you can find a way to make it workable then I'm happy to leave it in the running as a category.

On the subject of Best Comic, what about expanding the options to include all the other award winners? Anyone that the judges gave an award is included in an open vote for Best Comic.

This would mean of course though that there would have to be a two stage awards. One for individual categories and then one to see who the overall winner is.
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Novil



Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 393

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uhm, no.

It’s not a good idea to have another voting round at all! Two voting rounds (one by webcomic creators and one by the jury) should be the maximum for any award. With more rounds you’re REALLY stretching the attention span of anyone involved in the awards, webcomickers, jury members and readers. Do you know of any other successful award with that many voting rounds?

ttallan wrote:
wendyw wrote:
Best Story comic / Comedy comic + Best Strip Comic / Full Page Comic
(The potential problem with these four is, as Luke pointed out these might not work that well with the overall Best Comic award. I personally do like the Best Story and Best Comedy awards, but I do see his point.)
Best World Building

One possibility would be to have these four winners, and then do a final Big Extravaganza round where one of these gets picked for Best Comic of the Year. With only four to choose from you could throw the vote open to the public, or the TWCL membership, or whatever you like.


You want an award for “Best strip comic” vs. “Best full page comic”? That’s not a good idea in my eyes. First, the difference is quite sketchy. There are several examples like “Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal” which update in any format they like. Furthermore most strip comics are humorous while most full page comics are story driven. In the end, almost the same comics would end up with the most nominations, e. g. “XKCD” for best strip and best comedy and “Girl Genius” for best full page and best story.
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mooncity
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Joined: 27 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoe Robinson wrote:
mooncity wrote:
Zoe Robinson wrote:
We should also consider a "Best comic in a non-English language" category as well, since the English-language comics always dominate awards.


How could we read them?


Umm... some of us can?


This is where things begin to get a bit unweildly. To properly judge the entries, they should be accessible to both the judges and the followers of the WCL Awards as well. If a comic is written in another language, it's a dealbreaker for me unless it has an English mirror site. And if it does, the comic can compete in the general awards, and so there'd be no need for an extra category.

I also think that while photo comics and Lego comics are definitely part of webcomickry, there aren't too many of them out there, relatively speaking. I would think they could be combined under photo comics, since Legos hafta be photographed anyway.
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Mooncity
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Novil wrote:
You want an award for “Best strip comic” vs. “Best full page comic”? That’s not a good idea in my eyes. First, the difference is quite sketchy. There are several examples like “Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal” which update in any format they like. Furthermore most strip comics are humorous while most full page comics are story driven. In the end, almost the same comics would end up with the most nominations, e. g. “XKCD” for best strip and best comedy and “Girl Genius” for best full page and best story.



I see what you mean. I myself play with the format of my comic from time to time.

This issue could be solved by having a category for Best Long Form (Graphic Novel) Comic and Best Humor Comic. Not that the long form comic can't be a humor comic, but it narrows things down a bit while at the same time being broad enough to cover everything.
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LukeSurl
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about "Funniest" and "Best Storytelling". Both reward the primary virtues of these two broad genres without explicitly declaring the winner to overall be the best humour/story comic (i.e. art is not considered)

Some comics, such as Order of the Stick, could be candidates for both, but that wouldn't be too much of a problem. There'd be a few comic which tell neither stories nor jokes, but we can't cover everything.

Awards based on page format doesn't seem to be that workable as on the web these things are pretty fluid.

As far as languages go, I really can't see it working. We may have to tacitly accept these are English language (and translations to english) awards.
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Novil



Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually calling it “most funny” would favour cartoons like XKCD, where each strip is supposed to be as funny as possible compared to classic newspaper comics like Sinfest which tell short stories now and then.
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Casual Notice
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Joined: 18 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All opinons rescinded due to lack of interest.
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Last edited by Casual Notice on Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Novil



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casual Notice wrote:

How about every award that anyone has ever taken seriously.


Completely wrong.
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Casual Notice
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All opinons rescinded due to lack of interest.
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jynksie



Joined: 23 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still am flummoxed over what "best world building comic" means?

some thoughts if you care to have them: I thought the different genres might be singled out, which would not preclude them from the bolded ones as well!

Best comic
Best new comic [cut off jan 2008?]
Best story comic
Best comedy comic
Best drama comic

Best slice of life comic
Best sci-fi comic
Best gaming comic
Best furry comic
Best single panel comic
Best photo comic
Best writing
Best color art
Best black and white art
Most innovative comic / Best non-traditional comic
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mooncity
is awesome cool.


Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1339
Location: Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jynksie wrote:
I still am flummoxed over what "best world building comic" means?

some thoughts if you care to have them: I thought the different genres might be singled out, which would not preclude them from the bolded ones as well!

Best comic
Best new comic [cut off jan 2008?]
Best story comic
Best comedy comic
Best drama comic

Best slice of life comic
Best sci-fi comic
Best gaming comic
Best furry comic
Best single panel comic
Best photo comic
Best writing
Best color art
Best black and white art
Most innovative comic / Best non-traditional comic


I like this list. A few tweaks I'd add are:

Best comic
Best long form comic
Best comedy comic
Best drama comic
Best sci-fi comic
Best gaming comic
Best furry comic
Best single panel comic
Best photo comic
Best writing
Best color art
Best black and white art
Most innovative comic / Best non-traditional comic
Horizon Award (best newcomer)

Best slice of life comic could be melding in with best comedy comic, since most are. The ones that aren't tend to be dramas ayway.

I personally hate the term "best use of the medium," but "most innovative/non-trad" covers this one nicely with more room besides.

I propose the Horizon Award cut off date be later. If we put the WCLA out at the end of the year, than Jan 2008 would mean the comic has been around for almost two years and technically isn't new anymore. I propose January 2009, so a given new comic is less than a year old.
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Mooncity
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mooncity
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Joined: 27 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also propose someone make a Webcomic Razzy ceremony, maybe with a special Mr. Blackwell Award for the lousiest looking website.






Well, not really.... but it could be funny if someone did. Especially if said Mr. Blackwell reviewed the website in rhyme:

"Your webcomic isn't that bad, but it's SO hard to read!
Because all those garish colors makes my eyes bleed!"


or

"Rocket Llama, your site makes me go atomic!
You've got links and buttons and ads and GIFs,
But where the heck's your comic?!"



Wink
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Mooncity
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Last edited by mooncity on Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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