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pimpster200390 · Joined: 03 Mar 2009 Posts: 16

I am currently in search for an artist willing to partake in, with me, an idea I have for a joker epic. I have recently read Brian Azzarello and Lee Bermejo's Joker and was mostly disappointed, it was a good story but it just wasn’t joker. Thus began my quest to write the story I wanted to read, and now all that remains is for an artist to bring my dream to life. If you are interested at all email me at anthonyb1990@hotmail.com and I will send you some of my ideas and the drafts I’ve written. Thank you and I hope my artist will be you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LukeSurl · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject:

Deja vu?

I don't think its either legal, ethical or artistically interesting to use someone else's characters without their permission.
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Chilari · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:39 pm Post subject:

It's legal as long as you're not making money from it - fair use, you know - though I'm unsure as to whether that includes income from advertising. As for ethical or artistically interesting, meh.

I'm just wondering, did I waste my time when I wrote the huge long "Posting Etiquette" thread for this sort of thing? I mean, it was designed to help writers find artists. These threads should be like a CV for the writer. Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I've always taken great care with my CV. Ok, so a comic isn't the same as a job, but the analogy still stands.

Meh. Whatever.
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Casual Notice · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject:

Technically, you don't have to make money from the infringement as long as the owner can show that harm has been done to their trademark (Joker is a trademark) or that you have caused harm to their sales.
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Lavenderbard · Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 773 Location: Ohio

anezka wrote:

It's legal as long as you're not making money from it - fair use, you know - though I'm unsure as to whether that includes income from advertising. As for ethical or artistically interesting, meh.

This is a common belief, but a mistaken one.

"Fair use" covers only a few very restricted types of uses. It does not now, and never has, allowed for unrestricted non-commercial uses of other people's intellectual properties.

Fanfic *is* illegal, even if you are making no money off of it -- unless you have permission from the copyright holder to make "derivative works".

Some authors have made public statements granting anyone and everyone permission to make non-commercial derivative works of everything they do.

But most have not.
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LukeSurl · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject:

To be honest, its very unlikely DC or whoever will care about fan fic in whatever medium. However I wouldn't like to work on a project that meant that, in the rare chance you made it big, you'd be looking nervously over your shoulder for lawyers.

The main problem I see is that its just a bit dull to use someone else's character and universe. One of the joys of creating fiction is to craft your own world and populate it as you see fit. You can take the Joker as your inspiration, but cut yourself free from the bounds of his decades long history, create someone new and see where he goes from there!
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jdalton · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:48 pm Post subject:

Lavenderbard wrote:

Fanfic *is* illegal, even if you are making no money off of it -- unless you have permission from the copyright holder to make "derivative works".

It is, but ultimately it is up to the individual copyright holder what they choose to do about fanfics. Different copyright holders will react differently. Marvel and DC, for example, seem to be very forgiving of fan-made pinups of their characters. I'm not aware of any fan-made comics they've forgiven.

Dude, if you really think you've written a Joker script that is better than what DC is doing, either sell it to DC, or draw it yourself. Writing of that (apparent) calibre will show through crummy art. I don't know why any artist would want to spend weeks and weeks drawing a comic that is 1.) not their own idea, 2.) not an opportunity to participate in a new and exciting creation, 3.) unable to ever make them any money for legal reasons, and 4.) has the slight potential to land them an AOL-Time-Warner sponsored law suit.
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Jonathon Dalton

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Lord Pandar · Resident Loony Detector Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 2517

Let's do it, bro.
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AskMeAboutOrcs · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject:

Lord Pandar wrote:

Let's do it, bro.

Why is that clown petting a dookie?

Lord Pandar · Resident Loony Detector Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 2517

Bcuz he's rite pervy
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thestripedone · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject:

I just have to say that LB is 100% right about the "fair use" confusion. I'm a librarian at a university and we get *professors* who think that all the time.

"It's not illegal for me to photocopy every page in this book and give it to my students because it is for EDUCATION! RIGHT!?"

That aside, I think you should totally go with the offer of the creator of STUFF YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR on this one.

WriterWhoCantDraw · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:54 pm Post subject:

Using other people's comics and characters without permission - not cool. Unless you want to hear from DC's lawyers.

Parody, however, is just fine, and tends to be nearly lawsuit-proof. Although in the case of The Joker, it's already been done, and done quite well:

http://shenanigan.comicgenesis.com/
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vulpeslibertas · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:13 am Post subject:

anezka wrote:

It's legal as long as you're not making money from it - fair use, you know - though I'm unsure as to whether that includes income from advertising. As for ethical or artistically interesting, meh.

Aside from it being legal or not, advertising is, in effect, charging for the work. You are using it as a primary or substantial draw to your website, for which you are receiving direct payment.

anezka wrote:

I'm just wondering, did I waste my time when I wrote the huge long "Posting Etiquette" thread for this sort of thing?

Yes. Professional writers already know how to attract interest, and amateurs don't read instruction threads. I got a kick out of it though, which is something, even though you wasted your breath. ...just like I am when I say:

"Why don't you learn to draw? It's way easier than you think. Your art may not be perfect - it takes time. You may be surprised. It will also teach you the important differences between writing for prose and writing for comics. And if nothing else, you may attract an artist through a mercy intervention." Rolling Eyes

Please, won't someone take this advice.
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jdalton · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:30 am Post subject:

vulpeslibertas wrote:

"Why don't you learn to draw? It's way easier than you think. Your art may not be perfect - it takes time. You may be surprised. It will also teach you the important differences between writing for prose and writing for comics. And if nothing else, you may attract an artist through a mercy intervention." Rolling Eyes

Please, won't someone take this advice.

*slow clap*

Did you know that Alan Moore can draw? And so can Neil Gaiman? I haven't seen Alan Moore's drawings, but I did see a comic drawn by Neil Gaiman. It wasn't very well drawn, mind you, because he more or less gave up on drawing at an early age, but it was more competent than about half of the comics on the internet and if he were in your situation (*stifles a laugh*) I'm sure he would draw it himself rather than let SUCH a great idea go to waste. A good writer won't be stopped by anything, including a supposed inability to draw.
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Jonathon Dalton

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LukeSurl · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:49 am Post subject:

For all our discussions, I have a funny feeling "pimpster200390" is never planning on checking back on this thread. Does anyone have the audacity to email him these thoughts?
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