TWCL

Meggyc · Joined: 15 Dec 2008 Posts: 253

I haven't posted here in a while, so, hello, everyone... And new topic time!

This may relate to long-form comics more so than gag-a-day comics.

Would the average reader consider a large archive a good thing or just overwhelming? I think it's harder to say than simple black or white answer, so I thought this would be an interesting discussion.

This question has been on my mind for a long time so I apologize if I've ever asked this before and completely forgot about it.
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dlmx-13 · Joined: 23 Aug 2011 Posts: 50

Speaking for myself...they tend to be overwhelming. I know that I'm less likely to read a comic all the way through if the archives are large (unless it's really damn good - then I'll generally bookmark the page I'm on and continue reading later). I don't have a lot of time to spend reading webcomics and I suspect a lot of other people don't either - most of my free time is spent either working on my own comic or reading novels for work.

My comic also has a rather sizeable archive and it definitely seems to be scaring potential new readers away. I'm not sure what to do about that, though. Confused

Meggyc · Joined: 15 Dec 2008 Posts: 253

dlmx-13 wrote:

My comic also has a rather sizeable archive and it definitely seems to be scaring potential new readers away. I'm not sure what to do about that, though. Confused

I've seen comics get past this by breaking their stories into chapters. Still it can be really overwhelming even with chapters.

Another question could be, what qualifies as a large archive? My comic has 350+ pages, but I occasionally get messages from people saying they read through the archives in just over an hour. (Then again, I'm sure more text heavy comics of the same length could take far longer to read through.) I have read comics that have taken (what felt like) days to read through. Different people have different attention spans, so that's a factor as well.
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ewomack · Grand prize winner! Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 337

I draw a single panel, non-narrative strip and after four years my archive has started to swell. Regardless, a fair amount of visitors (relative to my hit count, at least) peruse the long archive. But a strip without a coherent story is easier to browse than a sequential one.

In line with what was already said, I'd probably only go through a long archive if the strip interested me to a large degree. Especially if it involves following a long narrative. Best to have moments of resolution, like a serial novel, that provide good stopping and re-starting points. Pages and pages of endless narrative will tire anyone out.
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Ed Womack

smbhax.com · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:09 am Post subject:

For myself, if I find a comic I really really like, I think a large archive is fantastic--more of the good stuff! So I can't say I understand the concept that a large archive would be a drawback. But I also don't really understand having character and story summary pages for "new readers"; just read the damn comic if you like it, and then you'll know everything!

When I fall in love with a comic I just burn through the whole archive as quickly and unhealthily as possible. :D

From my perspective as a webcomic author whose main comic is approaching 1500 (single panel) pages, having the large archive is awesome because people (like me, I suppose) burn through tons of page views, increasing revenue from the ad boxes below the comic. This doesn't seem to work as well with PW ads (as opposed to Google and ValueClick ads) since people fixate on the "uniques" count...although maybe it does, because PW seems to think I have about 20 times as many uniques as I actually do!
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Sylvia · Joined: 19 Nov 2008 Posts: 134 Location: PA

Yeah, I agree. I rarely find a comic that I like so much I just can't get enough of it, but when I do, then the more the better. I only have about 120 pages now, but I've been getting a lot of comments on the latest page saying, "oh, shoot, I caught up, now I have to wait =("

Sometimes a long archive will be a deterrent for me if a vast chunk of the beginning pages are sloppily drawn - like so it's hard to know what's going on.
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Casual Notice · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:38 am Post subject:

A big archive is more palatable if the archive page is broken into smaller bites, I think. Longform comics should be broken at least into major plot arcs or chapters. Dailies can be divided into years. The longer your comic runs, the bigger your archive is going to be, that's just a fact of life.

If maintaining a large archive is a financial issue (for reasons of space or lack of sponsor support), you can always publish the older chapters/years/collections into a pdf file and bung 'em behind a pay wall. That's no different in concept than most newspaper comic collection volumes (heck, Peanuts used to publish large hardback volumes, then further edit down to standard paperback books that contained a fraction of the hardback collection's content).
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What I lack in sincerity, I make up for in sarcasm.
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Dutch · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:47 pm Post subject:

I've found it to be an issue, which has been a little nagging issue in the back of my head for a while now. I've had comments or the odd email sent to me along the lines of 'yeah, it's a good little comic, but sorry, there's too much there to read for me now'.

The attention span of the average reader appears (from commentary like that) to be far too short for your long running strip these days. I've had one current reader at least tell me they were glad they decided against their usual 'glance at a few and run' habits and gave the full archive a go, because they realised they would have missed out on a little world they now thoroughly enjoy, but I don't think that is the norm, unfortunately.

Personally, I'm thrilled to have passed the four digit milestone with a thrice weekly strip, but I know that fairly hefty archive is turning potential readers away.
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CMorgan · ^_^ Joined: 29 Aug 2011 Posts: 47

There is something exciting about catching a comic from the very beginning and reading along as its created (I remember I did this for The Meek, Ratfist, vattu, and a few other recent hits) but it is a trial when it comes to long established story comics.

I mostly get frustrated because sometimes it takes multiple sittings to get through an archive and I don't always remember where i left off. I remember I got completely lost when i read Riceboy and the archive was so daunting that I didn't try again for another year. Also sometimes it just seems like a chore (weird right?) But in most cases if i muster the will to start reading a long comic i get hooked and and will bookmark it. Its just getting past that initial feeling of laziness. I dont know if there is a remedy for this, but all i can say is the opening pages better be engaging if im going to bookmark something.

For strip comics, I don't usually have this problem.

NK_Nutter · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:09 am Post subject:

It's nice to have the option to buy a printed collection of the comics in book form if the archives are that daunting. Sinfest for example, with it's massive backlog.
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ttallan · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject:

I have no idea. A big archive trawl has put me off more than one comic, but I may not represent the average reader. I don't consider my own archive massive yet, which has a lot to do with the fact that I get so many "I wish you updated more often!" comments. My long-form story is broken down by chapter and then further by scene, and I have some short stories for those who don't want to commit to all 231 pages. Is that a lot? Doesn't seem like a lot to me, not compared to other archives.

Ultimately, I'm not really looking to take any further steps to improve the archive trawl experience. If readers find page loads annoying (and I certainly do), I'd much rather steer them towards buying the printed books or the pdfs. That, I'm sure I should be finding ways to do more effectively!
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Erik Roman · Joined: 19 Oct 2011 Posts: 31

As a relatively new webcomic creator I have no insight to the archive issue as my comic, Red Devil, has only four pages and has been live for a month or so.

I do, however, as a reader have a lot of experience and, as some had mentioned above, I like a huge archive. If the comic is good, I want to read as much as possible and the more, the merrier. If it's not good or doesn't get my attention, it doesn't matter how big the archive is as I'm not going to read it.

I would go on the assumption that everyone who encounters your comic loves it and want's it all because the ones that don't like it are not the ones you are catering to.

lexia · Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 80

I like the archives in comics, it helps me decide if i like it or not or will return.

Really it is not required to read them all so weather it hurts or not is not a real effect, a gag a day comic you would not need to read them all, a story comic would be different. Even if you must read them all there is no law I can find that says you have to read it in one sitting, some comics archives I read over a week or two.

I would prefer a nice archives being that sometimes I get bored and go and read the older stuff. Either way you need some archives to catch some people and a large archives shows you update at a consent rate. I think it's a good sign, I tend to not follow comics that been around for a year and have 10 comics in archives (means updates are rare not worth checking back) With a big archives I tend to keep even if on hiatus because I can go back in the archives and reread, but varies on how long they away, if no update in 3 months and no reason on site for it I just stop going back.

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Metruis · Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 990 Location: Canada

I hate it when a story comic doesn't have a long archive. I love reading, and with a story, I'm only satisfied by having quantity. I hate having to follow a story-based comic week by week (since many only update one page a week), because I feel like I'm losing out on the big picture. Many a longform comic just gets bookmarked and visited only every few months for an archive trawl. (I bookmark where I left off. It's not that hard to deal with a big archive!)

Basically, it disappoints me if I find an awesome comic and it only has 20 pages. I probably won't start following it, especially if the update schedule is slow. It takes a seriously incredible comic for me to remember its update schedule... I'd rather have a long archive to read through and come back every few months for more content.

Archives also help me decide if I care enough to return or not.

With a gag a day comic it's less important, and I do like comics that are broken into smaller stories, especially if their archives are literally massive. Then I can just pick a story and read through that.

Of course, there's a difference between having to read a few hundred pages and a few THOUSAND pages. If you have a few thousand page archive your comic had better kick ass, or have a decent jumping-in point closer to where it is now. I've been working on Shylock Mercenary for a long time. If it seems like a chore I'll probably just give up on the archive and read the last few chapters. Most stories aren't so deep that I can't figure on what happened. D:
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smbhax.com · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:18 pm Post subject:

Heehee, Shylock Mercenary. :D
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