TWCL

Frumph · Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 19

$80 is steep. The website that this information was on had the text left in that said no design included. The website comicpresspremium.com was a testbed mockup for the new comicpress.org site., not all information that was provided on there was accurate because it was changed as often as I could do it.

The model that I was shooting for was to have an inflated price and offer it to various organizations like WebComics.com - DA and others via the developers a special price ranging from $19-$39 while the 'manufactured retail price' would be on the website.

The actual price for 'just' the premium by itself from a developer is free (without installation and design), but you don't know that because the thing isn't even released yet.

It did state on the website that prices are subject to change and vary with developer.

Since premium is *not* backwards compatible we wanted to make it as easy and painless as possible to allow the developer who was selling you the Premium be able to be compensated for their time.

The 'misinformation' came from sources who did not quite understand the difference between the Legacy and Premium version names. Hence, we have taken away Premium from the ComicPress name and are not going to provide it to webcomic community as such.

If you read my post last month and the other information in the 2 podcasts MoonHawk studios and TGT WebComics it was stated previously that Legacy (the original comicpress) will always be supported with making sure it works with all upcoming and future versions of WordPress. Including a tidbit on Fleen.

This is *not* new information. I did *not* just pull this out of my hat yesterday and thrust it upon you. There have been talks, conversations and more on a continued basis for quite awhile now.

While Legacy has the same features as it has now *plus some new great ones* it doesn't have all the features or optimization that Premium has or the core workings. Premium is completely plug in play, you just put the theme in (if it's a new installation) and immediately you have the choice of one of 32 different subdesigns (and the stock one to design your own); and can upload a new comic without configuring anything. Instantly working. There was a new ComicPress API that can connect with twitter, facebook and other social networking sites as well as blog listers and all the push for your site to be type sites can be configured to connect to, to automatically generate your advertising for your current published comic. Another feature of the new backend theme wise is an integrated designer package which allows you to GUI design your site in the back end with a real time model look of your site. I love the new API code that allows for a wordpress plugin to banner exchange between users from a central image repository. Not to mention the new advertisers pockets. All of these addons are not even looked at unless enabled in the options. It's just a slick package altogether. These are but a small set of examples of the new features available, much more is in there however I don't exactly want to give out information on everything at this time.

While I understand some of you can design your own sites, create them how you want them to look, Premium is designed for those who want to just get up and get started and have a beautiful looking site right away. That is important with quite a few people and I feel that the time and effort that we put into making that happen should make it worth the monies spent on purchasing it.

Unfortunately since it's a WordPress theme we cannot sell the theme itself we have to sell the time involved with setup and more.

At this time we will not offer premium under the ComicPress name anymore and will also not have it available in this business model. I haven't figured out the entirety of it yet, however I'm thinking of discussing it with comic hosting companies to only have it available as an option while being hosted on one of those networks.

Again, this has nothing to do with regular ComicPress, absolutely nothing. That will remain free and updated on a regular basis.

- Phil

Note: This has been edited to try to try to convey better word usage.

Additional Note: While we have been beta testing with users the core functionality of comic posting with the old theme they have not even yet tested the new one. The release of was Premium is still a month away and even then it's still not pushed out at you like it was an immediate thing.

smbhax.com · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject:

Frumph wrote:

Artists should be artists, not coders

Maybe if this was the Middle Ages! =P Hm come to think of it that's not really true either; if my smattering of art history is at all correct, then the best (remembered) artists in history have tended to be among the best technicians of their medium as well.

Aside from that, good luck with the new project, and it's good to know your existing install base will still be supported!

(<-- is not a ComicPress user, so don't mind him)
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mooncity · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:01 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the info, Frumph. Clarifies a lot of stuff people were concerned about.
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Mooncity
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow since 1976!

The comic strip that never was.

Frumph · Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 19

I'm also thinking of making those plugins instead of actual in core features that will work with any blog/comic on the publish action, etc.

Dunno, yet.

Frumph · Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 19

Zoe Robinson wrote:

Firstly, given that I can't stand the both the look of ComicPress 2.9 and its altered functionality compared to ComicPress 2.5 (which I still use and which remains compatible with WordPress), I have to state outright that an advert saying "pay $80 to stay compatible with WordPress" (which is how your advert came across before the later statement that 2.9 would be maintained) made me dismiss your product immediately.

You mean the barebones look that lets you design your own look? That it allows you to start with either the silver or boxed child them to design your own?

I'm not sure what you're getting at there. The barebones look is for the benefit of the end user to put their own CSS in or get a child theme that has a closer to look to what your going for, the theme is made that way on purpose.

*another reason why we have the new gui designer package inside of the premium*

Zoe Robinson · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject:

[quote="Frumph"]

Zoe Robinson wrote:

You mean the barebones look that lets you design your own look?

No, I mean the hideous buttons and the fact that the coding style clearly changed between 2.5 and 2.9. In fact, it had changed so much that additions I was able to make in 5 minutes using 2.5 couldn't be replicated under 2.9 in two hours of me tutoring another webcomic writer. That's not a good improvement.
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Frumph · Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 19

All coding improvements that people were making were gathered and turned into options available for people to use.

If you wish to have a feature available that you do normally for coding i'm more then happy to put it in, if it's not there already, more then likely it might be.

Those "buttons" that you refer to are interchangeable and modifiable, 2.9 comes with an assorted different set of buttons. It's even written that child themes will look at any new button sets that you create on your own.

Those again, are in the comicpress options to change the style of those buttons, even has a texts based default one that you can CSS up as well.

I am led to believe that you haven't looked at the options available in ComicPress 2.9* series since you do not yet know of that, if you could take a look some day, you will probably be avidly surprised.

Zoe Robinson · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:08 pm Post subject:

Frumph wrote:

I am led to believe that you haven't looked at the options available in ComicPress 2.9* series since you do not yet know of that, if you could take a look some day, you will probably be avidly surprised.

Seen it and didn't like it.

I notice you didn't actually answer the questions I and others asked. If you can't or won't answer, just say so.
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Clint Wolf · Joined: 15 Apr 2010 Posts: 298

I don't see anything about Premium or even a 3.0 version on comicpress.org or their official forums there, so I don't even know where that screenshot fesworks posted came from.

So the main confusion here is that Premium is a side project that had nothing officially to do with the mainstream ComicPress product, but had (originally) decided to use the ComicPress name for its promotion?

If so, then nothing to worry about, ComicPress As We Know It does not change.

EDIT to add: I realize I'm probably just restating what's already stated, but I think it was important to just boil it down to a few sentences so there's no more panic on the plane.

Oh, and we're all out of coffee...
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Frumph · Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 19

I answered all questions that were needing to be addressed, if you have any ComicPress specific questions I refer you to the http://comicpress.org/forum

And no, you didn't see it, because your referencing things that are based on options that you can change like the graphical navigation buttons, which coincidentally I have stated are skinable. If you were to have seen the options available then you would know those would be there. Not to mention that I offered to include whatever feature you are normally doing to those other sites that you say you do. Even though I'm unsure what they are if they are a benefit then I would be happy to include them.

also, comicpress_display_post() is the function that displays the posts for all areas of the code, which is in the directory functions/displaypost.php that might assist you in finding the regular code you were looking for.

Zoe Robinson · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:57 pm Post subject:

Frumph wrote:

I answered all questions that were needing to be addressed

No, you didn't. You're clearly avoiding specific questions. I therefore see no point in continuing to speak to you.
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wendyw · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:16 pm Post subject:

smbhax.com wrote:

Frumph wrote:

Artists should be artists, not coders

Maybe if this was the Middle Ages! =P Hm come to think of it that's not really true either; if my smattering of art history is at all correct, then the best (remembered) artists in history have tended to be among the best technicians of their medium as well.

Sort of.
I see what you mean, but at the same time I'm not sure it's really the same thing when it comes to websites.

Painters and illustrators can mix their own paints and inks and photographers can mix their own chemicals, set up their own darkrooms and so on, but that's all stuff leading to the creation of the work.

Websites are one of the things that come after and in a way seperate from the creation. Generally artists let someone else handle the exhibition of their work, in a building they didn't design, where it gets sold by someone with a better understanding of business and how to convince rich people that their work is worth a lot of money.

Coding is a completely alien process to some people (me included) and although I could follow the process of mixing my own paints or photographic chemicals (basic chemistry essentially and that was the bit of science I was really good at) or take apart, clean and assemble one of my cameras (even if I'd prefer someone else do it) coding completely confuses me.

I'd compare it to something like learning another language (I can decipher the meaning of some french, but I can't form a sentence in it) or trying to work out the value of x compared to y in a problem that uses half the alphabet. In other words, no matter how hard I try it all comes out as jibberish. It requires a completely different way of thinking than I seem to be capable of.

It took me a whole evening once to try and change the text colour on a page and in the end I had to get someone else to do it.
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Blog

lonelyfetus · Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:10 am Post subject:

I will update the main post to reflect current developments.

I think there's not enough credit going to Fesworks here. His direct questioning on twitter was the only thing to finally get Frumph to say the free version will be maintained forever, which would have been totally glazed over otherwise. He said the free version will be maintained from here on: HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE.

This isn't a hate fest guys, I don't know Frumph nor really ever care to- this is about getting the information out there and raising potent questions and valuable concerns as consumers, which cartoonists have a bad record that the mentality that sacrificing more will lead to a competitive edge. When things turn business, it's important to question the value for your dollar to make an informed decision and not just roll over on your belly. I see it way too often.

Mark this: I have no issues with business. I love small business and the spirit of entrepreneurship - but when you try to monetize things you have to have answers to the questions that come up. Being overzealous will cause an outlash. (Ex. Verizon's smartphones had their GPS disabled and provided it as a PREMIUM service. Everyone else gave this free pre-installed device service for free. People finally spoke out, and things changed. SEE ALSO: Net neutrality.)

I wonder if I wouldn't be so bothered if I didn't know that Frumph worked his way into a development team of an already well-established project then came up with ways to make money off it. Mentioning that the established creator Tyler Martin wouldn't be making anything off the venture leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

The following are replies to comments made while I was out. You can probably skip them since this whole Premium thing is being reconsidered.

When this started I posted the price tag on twitter for people who didn't know, it was the instant jump and mocking defensiveness that rose all the red flags.

Frumph wrote:

I've decided to rename Premium to another non-comicpress name altogether to avoid confusion with the standard ComicPress.

Having a Comicpress and a free ComicpressLite version should have been the first thing you've thought about(fig.1) and it looks like it's being done in hindsight (thank God). But in reality there was a Comicpress premium concept that was axed in the past, and by not having a free version updating was a great way to subvert this(fig.2). Everything until your admission to Fesworks now had it pointed to this direction.

Code:

_ Premium 3.0 -> 3.1 -> 3.2. . .
Fig.1) 2.8 -> 2.9 =|_ Legacy 3.0 -> 3.1 -> 3.2. . .

Fig.2) 2.5 -> 2.6 -> 2.7 -> 2.8 -> 2.9 ::[PAYWALL]-> 3.0 -> 3.1. . .

Frumph wrote:

If there is anyone that has an opinion that "uses" ComicPress I would love to hear from on what their opinions are.

You do realize that putting things in quotes means that you're reciting someone else or meaning the absolute opposite of what you say right?

Comicpress has become a general standard - more for Mindfacet's eloquent designs with big name webcomics than anything else - that's why intending to cut it off for a quick buck is newsworthy. Everyone heavily involved in webcomics has worked with it at one point or another. So anyone not using it by this point has their own reasons. This doesn't invalidate raising questions, we're not concerned because "gosh darn, we just don't know how fantastic it is!"

Frumph wrote:

lonelyfetus wrote:

When I stated to you several major issues of letting 2.9 rot on a shelf, your response was backwards compatibility is great and that I'm an asshole

Wishing anyone to fail is the mark of an asshole.

I will not further degrade myself to your level.

You're missing the forest for the trees here, I don't care what you think of me - I care that you buckled down and couldn't provide any sufficient answers until days later. I still wouldn't mind if you failed, your PR ability is simply uncanny.

Just about everyone who has something positive to say wrote:

I will pay for ComicPress and I like Frumph on personal level.

Almost everything I've heard from people that say "go for it!" knows you personaly. You should probably know by now that casual friends seldom tell the truth, and more along the supportive lines of what you want to hear. "Should I break up with her?" "Did you like my fan fiction?" "Think I can be a professional cartoonist?" "Do you think I can blackball everyone using comicpress for eighty bucks?"

Frumph wrote:

The model that I was shooting for was to have an inflated price and offer it to various organizations like WebComics.com - DA and others via the developers a special price ranging from $19-$39 while the 'manufactured retail price' would be on the website.

In business terms this is called high balling - so they can give preferential treatment to friends and high-profile customers who'll bring in new clients. So in light of this you're still thinking of paying full price you're either a super enthusiastic friend of Frumph or you're a sucker, a rube, a chump, a dupe, a fool, a gull, a patsy, a sap, a stooge.

Frumph wrote:

This is *not* new information. I did *not* just pull this out of my hat yesterday and thrust it upon you. There have been talks, conversations and more on a continued basis for quite awhile now.

The plans to tear down your home for the new highway has been posted for six months, Mr. Arthur Dent. It's a little late to protest now.

Quote:

At this time we will not offer premium under the ComicPress name anymore and will also not have it available in this business model.

Sometimes being an asshole pays off. I'm done. Let this whole thing be over with.

Frumph · Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 19

So your whole purpose of this incitement is to have me drop what I'm doing?

Wow.

AdamC · Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 101

Luckily for me I know enough HTML and can understand CSS enough to be able to eventually get a page to look the way I want it. Had there not been wordpress or comicpress I probably would have uploaded and made individual pages for all of my comics. Which probably sounds incredibly silly to someone who could code something to do it for me.

So that's why I was a little upset when I first heard the ComicPress thing. But it seems as usual the internet made a big freaking deal out of something without hearing the whole story.

I'm glad it's turned out OK for me at least. It seems others are still complaining. I can see why they'd want to charge for something. Don't we all have ads on our site? Honestly if my page generates a bit more income I'd definitely be willing to give some back to the people that helped it get there.