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Zoe Robinson · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:52 am Post subject:

This won't change webcomics, but I'll be looking at the iTablet with interest because if it works how I hope it works, I'll be interested in using it to make webcomics. Aside from that, I wouldn't worry about it. It's the real world equivalent of a Star Trek pad not its holodeck.
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Prestwick · Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 77

I think what will really change webcomics in the next few years is that it will become legitimized in the eyes of the mainstream comic audience as more and more big writers and artists decide to embark on webcomic projects.

Warren Ellis and Freakangels is a perfect example of this.
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joeychips · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject:

Historically speaking, I think that methods of distribution have had a huge impact on comics readership and on what gets created. Newspapers, color comics, black and white independent comics, mini-comics, graphic novels, and webcomics... they have all had their high and low points. Some are even in decline. My thought is that this tablet digital magazine format may be another one of those innovations in distribution that raises up or transfers a whole new crop of readers and creators.

I agree that comics will always be comics, but I am very curious to know if the digital magazine tablet format will be the next major shift in the realm of comics. How comics are packaged totally has an influence on what is produced. I am a fine arts trained painter. I love to sling color around, but in the 1980s and 1990s I buckled down to black and white because that was my mode of distribution.

Same goes with color webcomics--the digital experience of creating is totally different than creating works on paper. I do both and you can spot the differences a mile away. I would never have imagined the digital style of what I do before the dawn of computers.

I am not declairing the end of webcomics. My point is that any new format or mode of distribution could really bring something unimagined to the comic experience. Does that make sense?
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Lavenderbard · Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 773 Location: Ohio

joeychips wrote:

My point is that any new format or mode of distribution could really bring something unimagined to the comic experience. Does that make sense?

I think your basic point is pretty sound.

Unfortunately, I can't imagine those changes, so I'm having trouble coming up with anything to say about them. Sad

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Kail · Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 409

joeychips wrote:

I agree that comics will always be comics, but I am very curious to know if the digital magazine tablet format will be the next major shift in the realm of comics. How comics are packaged totally has an influence on what is produced.

This is what I'm not seeing. We're not talking about being able to paint directly with our minds or something like that. We're talking about delivering the same content to the same audience on a new device which has basically the same capabilities as mainstream computers have had for the last few years. We're not talking about the difference between black and white vs. color comics here, we're talking about something more like comics which use RSS feeds and comics which don't. When I sit down tonight and say "Okay, time to work on my comic" what exactly would I have to do differently if I was designing it specifically for an e-journal or a tablet or what have you? I can't think of anything, except maybe resolution issues.

Prestwick · Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 77

Aren't comics one of the few bastions of design where the user influences design more than a select elite?

For example, the majority of people exhibit a desire for paperback editions of their comics which is fulfilled. They're not quite bothered in what kind of form, size or shape it comes in as long as its readble.

E-books and tablet computers are something which people are fearful of. People are also wary of storing their important data (which may include comics) either on a computer or on a sever miles away. They want something close to hand rather than something whose survival depends on several faceless System Admin somewhere in London or elsewhere.

Paper based comicbooks are safe for now but that isn't going to be forever.
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ttallan · Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject:

Kail wrote:

When I sit down tonight and say "Okay, time to work on my comic" what exactly would I have to do differently if I was designing it specifically for an e-journal or a tablet or what have you? I can't think of anything, except maybe resolution issues.

Actually, I think a new delivery system, like a really good tablet, absolutely could change comics in huge ways. I've already seen this happen with the rise in popularity of comics on the web.

As an example-- fifteen years ago when we were all making "floppy" comics, we were limited by the printer's specs. Our stories had to fit within 24 pages (or 48 pages if we were making a double-sized book), with room for letter pages or editorial pages or whatever. Although you theoretically could make your comics in sizes different from the classic 6x9, anything else would 1) cost a lot more to print, and 2) make the retailers store your outsized book elsewhere from than their standard-sized racks with the other comics, killing your sales (unless you were Chris Ware, I suppose). Also, unless you were selling upwards of 20,000 copies per issue, colour was not an option.

On the web, comic creators have the freedom to make their comics any size and any length. Most new webcomickers use sizes that are suitable for reading on a screen, rather than suitable for a printer. I don't have to squeeze my chapters into twenty pages anymore-- on the web, my chapters have varied in length from 27 pages to 35, and it doesn't matter.

Another big change is posting new material one page at a time. That is profoundly different, at least for long form comics. One can argue that there's nothing to stop us from posting 20 pages at a go on a bimonthly schedule, the way we did for the floppies, but I don't think there would be much disagreement that that would be the death of our readership. The web thrives on small doses of frequent new content, and we long-form artists are adjusting our craft to fit it.

So, I don't know what changes a tablet would bring, but I agree with joeychips that there will definitely be some!
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Max Vaehling · Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 384 Location: Bremen, Germany

We're talking about two more or less new things here, I think. A distribution channel (which has been a topic ever since the first eBook readers came up) and multimedia applications.

As a dsitribution channel, I'm moderately enthusiastic about any new gadget. The easier the formatting and the broader the market for the gadget, the better. And of course the tech informs the content. I heard some iPhine comics enable you to click on the images to enlarge them, then back to the layout view. I like that, it sounds like a good use of the medium. I'd do it myself if I knew where to start.

As for the multimedia content thingy, well, I've seen those come and go. Ten years ago everybody insisted that webcomics should be all interactive, non-linear and animated. Today, most webcomics are just serialized comic pages. Becasue it's easy to keep going, and readers don't seem to mind. Plus, it's still about the stories, not the presentation. Unless the presentation sucks, of course.

Personally, I see webcomics as an alternative to multimedia entertainment. They're just so much less of a hassle. I don't have to switch off my MP3 player when I'm reading them, and my computer doesn't get hickups trying to stream them. Sometimes Noscript coughs because the pages require Javascript, but that's it.

As for those newish magazine presentations, I don't think comics will have to bend over to compete. But they could become part of those packages. After all, what's a magazine without a proper comic?
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Prestwick · Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 77

Thats one issue with Zuda. Why does it have to be some weird all singing, all dancing flash interface which requires you to zoom in to start reading and because of its weird layout makes it hard to navigate afterwards?

The only thing going for it is that its got serious backing which means it'll attract everyone by the smell alone. Kind of like Craigslist: awful design but immensely attractive to its target audience.

Look at what others have managed to acheive with a bit of simple HTML and CSS. I keep going back to Warren Ellis but look at Freakangels. Simple web design, standard layout and a cracking story. No gimmicks. No flash. Just pure substance over style.

As the legendary Colin Chapman said when he was asked why Lotus cars were so great:

Quote:

Simplify...then add lightness.

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joeychips · Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject:

Tara's examples (third post above) are exactly what I was talking about. As tools and distribution avenues change, it will be fascinating to see what may change about how we do what we do in the years to come.
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Joe Chiappetta - Read Silly Daddy comics at http://sillydaddy.net

ladystar · Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:57 pm Post subject:

A tablet that can be used to read books, magazines, PDFs. etc. would be fantastic.

It would be too bad if it were limited to books and magazines by a few huge multi-billion dollar publishers and nothing else. That sounds like the perfect antithesis to a library.

On the subject of iPhone comics (and ultimately tablet comics) would a uniform-frame-size approach make sense? In other words, to make each "page" on the iPhone/tablet be what on a printed page would be one frame? This seems to me to be a workable solution to the obvious resolution problem on a small screen.
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Prestwick · Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 77

There will probably have to be a new page size agreed and made an international standard because (and this is another gripe I have) services like Zuda aren't visually compatible with mobile devices like the iPhone, Pre, N900 or Android phones.

If there was an ISO standard for mobile book & magazine content then it'd help artists and creators develop for mobile devices.
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wendyw · Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:41 am Post subject:

I suppose to me it just all seems a bit of a novelty.

What does the tablet really offer that a laptop doesn't?
The only thing I can think of is the ability to use it in portrait mode. Other than that there's nothing particularly useful I can see about it that's new.

As for comics on phones, I don't get why anyone reads them like that. You have a horribly small screen, which means there's no way you can look at the whole page and actually read it at the same time. I can honestly say that I will never read a comic on any phone. Browsers and readers on phones are only really any good for text.

Personally I think that comic readers for phones are just a passing fad and will die off. As I said before, mobile phones are just a horrid platform for looking at comics on. You get the convenience of getting to read them wherever you are, sure, but at the cost of the quality of the experience.
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Prestwick · Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 77

wendyw wrote:

As for comics on phones, I don't get why anyone reads them like that. You have a horribly small screen, which means there's no way you can look at the whole page and actually read it at the same time. I can honestly say that I will never read a comic on any phone. Browsers and readers on phones are only really any good for text.

In Japan, otaku have managed to shoehorn downloaded manga onto their phones and the iphone has made things much easier for them but its still such a hassle with no proper standard of distribution or anything Sad

I'd mark it down as a fad.
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Kail · Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 409

ttallan wrote:

As an example-- fifteen years ago when we were all making "floppy" comics, we were limited by the printer's specs. (snip...) On the web, comic creators have the freedom to make their comics any size and any length.

Yeah, I agree there. What I don't agree with is the idea that this new tablet thing is a change comparable to the move from print to web. It does literally nothing that we can't already do. It's a new gadget that some people will use to download comics... but from the point of view of a creator, what does it change?

What, seriously, is going to change when this goes live? What will I have to do differently to utilize it to the fullest? What is it you guys are seeing that makes you think that this is going to be any different than Zuda or whatever?