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[quote="Max Vaehling"]Nice point, Italian, actually the first real good argument I heard in favor of two awards. If we want two awards, why not one for the graphic side of the character design and one for the writing side, backstory and dialogue characteristics and all?[/quote]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%" class="forumline"> <tr> <th class="thCornerL" width="22%" height="26">Author</th> <th class="thCornerR">Message</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Max Vaehling</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:28 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Nice point, Italian, actually the first real good argument I heard in favor of two awards. <br /> <br />If we want two awards, why not one for the graphic side of the character design and one for the writing side, backstory and dialogue characteristics and all?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>ttallan</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:47 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I voted for two awards not because I consider male vs. female character writing to be different disciplines, but because I would like this award to be about fun and awesome characters. For example, some people might consider The Terminator to be a really interesting character, even though the movies would never win one of the more serious "best screenplay" type of awards. Some characters are just really cool, and this is a chance to recognize them. So while we're at it, why not two, just for extra fun? Though I admit the point about missing the non-gender or otherly-gender characters is a fair one. <img src="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" /> <br /> <br />Also, it might be kinda fun, in a presentation kind of way, to give the award to the winning characters, instead of the creators.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Max Vaehling</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:46 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">As for the Oscar analogy: I think the main reason for having two awards there was to make sure the women get some, too. Especially for the "Best lead" category, because that's a male part in mainstream Hollywood, traditionally.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Max Vaehling</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:43 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>dooky wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">But that's assuming it's easier to write characters of your own gender. I'm a man, and I have a comic with an entirely female cast, partly because I'm so bad at creating fully rounded male characters...</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Nope, just assuming there's a difference, not assuming anything about what the difference is. BTW, I'm still in favor of just one award. Exactly because the assumed difference is, at the very least, fuzzy.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Max Vaehling</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:42 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>dooky wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">But that's assuming it's easier to write characters of your own gender. I'm a man, and I have a comic with an entirely female cast, partly because I'm so bad at creating fully rounded male characters...</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Nope, just assuming there's a difference, not assuming anything about what the difference is. BTW, I'm still in favor of just one award. Exactly because the assumed difference is, at the very least, fuzzy.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>dooky</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:38 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Bumping this to save it from the Guest Account-Generated Abyss of Eternal Badness (GAGAEB).</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>LukeSurl</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:26 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>hollylaing wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Okay, I guess I misunderstood the award. I thought it was to award a specific character, not the artist/writer's ability to design/develop characters.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br />It's sorta both really, but, as the characters are fictional creations of their designer, it's only the creator that's actually being honoured.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>hollylaing</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:19 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Okay, I guess I misunderstood the award. I thought it was to award a specific character, not the artist/writer's ability to design/develop characters. <br /> <br />Unless I am still missing something (which if true is probably really sad <img src="images/smiles/icon_razz.gif" alt="Razz" border="0" /> )</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Chilari</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:27 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">In general, I would agree with LukeSurl's above post. However, I would like to point out that male characters have been played by female actors before and probably vice versa. The example that comes to mind is Perry from Kevin and Perry Go Large, a male character played by a female actor. Also Bart Simpson, though that's really voice acting only and not quite as relevant.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>LukeSurl</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:21 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>LukeSurl wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Acting awards have male and female divisions because the roles available to men cannot be played by women and vice versa, it is the actors themselves who are up for the awards. </td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>hollylaing wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>LukeSurl wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"> <br /><span style="font-weight: bold">In comics it is the artists who are the contendors, and one artist can draw men and women just as easily.</span> Indeed, almost every story will have male <span style="font-weight: bold">and </span>female characters - the writer having to show skill in developing them both.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Actually, for a lot of artists (even pros) that isn't the case, but I suppose that alone wouldn't warrant a second category... if the award is based solely on the character design,</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I didn't mean it in that way. I meant that for acting there are male and female roles, and a male actor can only possibly play male roles (and vice versa). In comics, yes, some have more difficultly writing or drawing one sex (I find women harder to draw than men) but I am still able to have either male or female characters at my discretion. <br /> <br />The acting analogy doesn't work here. <br /> <br />If there is one category, we can say that we've identified which creator has done THE best job of character creation. With two categories, we'll end up with two creators winning two awards, neither of which means that they are the best at this skill. I just don't see how designing a male character and a female character are SUBSTANTIALLY different skills. <br /> <br />I think a single award here is worth more than the two awards combined. Plus we avoid any tricky sex-determining questions for robots, aliens, Vaarsuvius* etc. <br /> <br /><span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal">*Not as trivial a point as you might think, Burlew did a lot of development of the Vaarsuvius character this year, and he/she could be a contender for best character.</span></span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>hollylaing</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:57 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>LukeSurl wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"> <br /><span style="font-weight: bold">In comics it is the artists who are the contendors, and one artist can draw men and women just as easily.</span> Indeed, almost every story will have male <span style="font-weight: bold">and </span>female characters - the writer having to show skill in developing them both.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Actually, for a lot of artists (even pros) that isn't the case, but I suppose that alone wouldn't warrant a second category... if the award is based solely on the character design. <br /> <br />However, for the overall character I still believe that have two categories seems like the way to go.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>dooky</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:43 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">But that's assuming it's easier to write characters of your own gender. I'm a man, and I have a comic with an entirely female cast, partly because I'm so bad at creating fully rounded male characters...</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Max Vaehling</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:21 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Also, if it's about writing the opposite sex as well as your own, the award should be split into "best character of the author/artist's sex" and "Best character of the opposite sex, from the author's point of view". Or, to reel the other genders back in, "Best character of a sex or gender not shared by the author".</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>LukeSurl</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:18 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Acting awards have male and female divisions because the roles available to men cannot be played by women and vice versa, it is the actors themselves who are up for the awards. <br /> <br />In comics it is the artists who are the contendors, and one artist can draw men and women just as easily. Indeed, almost every story will have male <span style="font-weight: bold">and </span>female characters - the writer having to show skill in developing them both.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>hollylaing</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:08 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">If this is following similar categories to say, the Oscars, there would be a 'best actor' and 'best actress' award, wouldn't there? <br /> <br />There are differences when writing and developing characters of each sex, I personally believe that it is a skill that should be recognized. It also gives more comics an opportunity to be featured. So why not? <br /> <br />Just my opinion, though.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> </table>
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